Enthusiast ban list is real

It is quite easy. If you do not like park's rules, do not go. If you want to have your own rules, build your own park.

If parks says no picture taking, no picture should be taken. They make the rules; you don't. If you do not like them, too bad.

This is a different hobby since the HW incident. Things many of us have done (myself included) don't seem quite so harmless anymore. The fact is that the past is irrelevant, it's the present and the future we really need to worry about.

Have I taken my camera on rides? Yes. Will I do it again? Not unless I'm allowed. Times have changed over the past few months and folks aren't going to look on things like that quite so lightly anymore. Some things you don't really think about until something happens that makes you think of them.

Corey- I'm sorry if it seemed like I was calling you out. I was just trying to say that given your semi-notrious history you might not be the best spokesperson.

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- John
"Excuse me! Excuse me! You! Get over here right now!"

POV might be one of the greatest video footage archive to me. It's an invaluable way to keep the memory of a great coaster I've ridden alive, and also a great way to "scout" a coaster that I haven't ridden or want to ride badly.

Without POV, I might never have a clue what great coasters like Steel Dragon 2000 or Superman in Spain might be like.

You guys can argue til you're blue in the face about whether it's good, bad, great, or evil... but the bottom line is, if someone gets POV of those coasters and I can download them, I will. I may be a lot of things, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Bottom line is, I hate the fact that a girl died doing something she loved, and cause a park I love a lot of head/heartache. However, she's dead because of her choice to circumvent the safety devices who's sole purpose was to protect and save her life. She wasn't shooting POV.

If you choose to put a large portion of the blame on cameras on board, they should NEVER be allowed on ANY coaster at ANY park EVER. I'm afraid HW might have created a snafu by allowing them during SRM and not other times.

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-Brian, who enjoys long walks on the beach, wooden coasters, avoiding being called a "jobber" while keeping it real in the 9Quad.

Bravo Brian!

See he gets it.

Sorry, it wasn't cameras that caused this or high lapbars that caused this. It was some idiot who took off her seatbelt and stood up while a ride was in motion that caused this.

The only difference between that and a drunk driver is that she was only endangering herself.

Its the idiocy of defeating restraint systems that is the real problem.

Woudl you get out of your car and sit on the hood at 60 MPH?

I don't think so.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!
*** This post was edited by MagnumForce 10/16/2003 10:20:28 PM ***

Ok, here is a question for you. Should sites such as coastergallery and well even mine to some extent have their webmasters banned from the parks because they have POV photos on there? Are having these photos on the these sites a potential modivator for the parks to ban more people? I'm just trying to get a grasp on how stringent the parks (the ones who are banning) are being right now. Is it retroactive or do we have ex post facto?

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SWOOSH
MidwestInfoGuide.COM
MIZZOU-RAH!

For people who want to take pictures or record the videos, ask the park. Many of the points you make will not change people's mind here. Take them up with amusement parks.

Just remember to follow the rules set out by parks. If you break them, you will be banned. What is so difficult about this? Your opinions, which are your own, will not change park rules.

Swoosh- I think you're missing the point. The purpose of making it known that the parks are banning people is not to lose customers (which you must remember park guests are). It's to point out to people that if they continue to do things they shouldn't they won't be coming back. The goal is to change behavior and stop it before it goes bad.

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- John
Homepark: CP Home-away-from-homepark: PKI
My Campusfish Blog

Brent - The problem isn't just that one person did it one time and got unlucky. The fundamental problem is that in the enthusiast culture, people think it's okay/are encouraged to break rules, especially safety rules. Whether or not you agree with particular rules, it's not your place to say that some are okay to break and others are not. A rule is a rule and someone else's park is someone else's park.
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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

Magnumforce, Before you go overboard with the name calling, The idiot involved had a masters degree. Her name was Tamar a independantly successful person who helped others among other things, It is already clear at least one park is upset about the name calling. She was a person to them even if she did cause her own demise.

I think so too.

Chuck,

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Charles Nungester.
It's official Lesourdsville Lake is closed for 2003

I don't dispute that Chuck. But why is it ok to call others "Darwin Award Winners" on this website?

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

Tamar made a poor choice. We all do at various points in our lives. I'm sure she, of all people, would wish she could choose again.

The whole thing with other items, such as cellphones, is an excellent point, and it's exactly why parks are starting to insist on REALLY securing items (fanny packs, zippered/buttoned/snapped/velcro'ed cargo pockets, etc.). I've personally been doing so for years, because losing my insulin pump would absolutely ruin my day even if it didn't hit anyone.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."
*** This post was edited by GregLeg 10/17/2003 12:02:52 AM ***

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MagnumForce said:
I don't dispute that Chuck. But why is it ok to call others "Darwin Award Winners" on this website?

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

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Why? Because this forum like all the rest are human and sometimes lets minor things slide while major things get closed or deleted.

Im all for Zero tollerance on rule breakage, However freedom of speech is another thing. Of course this is CB and its a private forum so the rule does not apply!

Thats a joke son! :)

Chuck

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Charles Nungester.
It's official Lesourdsville Lake is closed for 2003

Swoosh, if you know the photos were obtained in ways that was within park rules then seems to me there is no problem with posting them.
On the other hand the nail the sticks up is the one that gets hammered down (I love old Nippon sayings:) ) Why risk alienating a park and maybe miss out on some future media event or behind the scenes access for your website that you ask for because you have photos that may have been obtained against park rules? Just a thought.

JW

*** This post was edited by Wolgamuth 10/17/2003 12:28:47 AM ***

ridiculous rant, lack of paragraphs and several instances of "SHUT UP" removed. -J
*** This post was edited by Jeff 10/17/2003 9:09:17 AM ***

Wicked Twister, thay have these cool things called "paragraphs" now; those things would totally make your rant more readable, dude.

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Mike Miller - My eyes! The goggles, they do nothing!!

This isn't about people being idiots, hypocrits, dimwits or halfwits. Tamar was not stupid, she was irresponsible. Those that allowed "one-click" rides were irresponsible. Those that are glorifying rule breaking by posting pics and footage are irresponsible.

This is about park companies, park employees, enthusiasts and guests taking responsibility.

PARK COMPANIES are now taking responsibility by clarifying their rules and enforcing them. They are also retraining their staff to implement those rules.

PARK EMPLOYEES are now taking notice of the dangers and are enforcing the rules.

Some ENTHUSIASTS are finally getting the seriousness of this issue.

If the above three groups take this seriously then it is likely to filter to general PARK GUESTS.

You know, there was a time when we all drove around with our infants and children loose in our cars. There were no carseats, seatbelts, airbags, etc. (Some of you are too young to know that but...it is true.)

Times have changed. Studies have shown that seatbelts save lives. Laws have been implemented to protect children with carseats. Police are starting to crack down on those offenders who are irresponsible.

This issue is no different. Perhaps parks were too lax with their policies previously but the national attention brought on by Markey, threats of lawsuits, accidents and deaths has provided a wakeup call for the industry. We are not going backwards...we're moving forwards.

Either get on the bus or walk away.
*** This post was edited by wahoo skipper 10/17/2003 8:30:00 AM ***

Talk about sounding overbearing and anal. Seems to me someone protests too much.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
http://www.webtechnik.com/ebony/CPLady.htm

MagnumForce said:
A lot of the parks policies make absolutely no sense, and if a ride op does not tell somone to put the camera away, it DOES basically condone it.

Common sense says obey the rules, especially those you don't understand!

With this mentality, if you shot someone and didn't go to jail, shooting people would immediately become legal!

You make it sound like if you don't understand the rules, they don't apply?

I'll bet you're the type that argues with the op that catches you after others didn't. I can see you on the platform now.... "Well I took it on here this morning and you didn't say anything....why can't I now??????"

People with your attitude are the ones that cause ops to dis-like enthusiasts,

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never met a coaster I didn't ride (except Junior Geminii) :(

Without getting too tied up in the discussion, and trying to stay as neutral as possible, I'd like to add something to the POV/Discovery discussion.

The way I interpreted the comment that Discovery doing the POV is nothing to do with how they film the footage. Yes, they are fully organized events with park officials and are preformed in the safest way possible, but what's that matter. I understand this whole discussion as Robb and Elissa's videos aren't appropriate because they show people breaking park rules, through insanely loose restraints, standing on rides, and the POV videos. So hence the issue is the largely to do with the fact that they distribute their videos which allegedly promote this kind of behaviour - if they were just for personal use, we mightn't even be where we are right now with all this waste-of-time nonsense (which sadly is all it is, for parks and enthusiasts). Enthusiasts see the video, see that this behaviour is clearly okay, and then duplicate it at their next park visit, be it any of the three situations I mentioned above (loose lapbars, standing, POVs).

Okay, let's tie Discovery into all of this. People watch the special, see this POV footage and decide that it looks pretty cool and then take cameras on rides to do the same at their local park. Obviously, they don't promote the more stupid and unsafe aspects, but as it is "zero tolerance", none are more or less wrong. I think you'd be kidding yourself if you said that this situation never occurs.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that POVs should be allowed "because Discovery can do them". I'm not saying that that new policies aren't in the best interest of all. I'm not saying that any single people are to blame... then again; I'm not saying any of them are.

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Total Thrills Amusement Guide
Australia's Premier Source for Thrills!

Sam, what I am saying that a law that is unenforced is not really a law.

The ride crews should be trained to tell those with cameras out in the open to put those cameras away if that is the rule.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!