CW new coaster for 08.

Monday, August 27, 2007 10:12 PM
Having just been on Nitro today, for the billionth time, it is still delivering airtime in leaps and bounds. Forceless? Not at all.
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Monday, August 27, 2007 11:59 PM
^ You better believe it! ;)

It's so funny how a coaster can inspire so many different reactions to the same ride. I would never in my wildest dreams think of Nitro as forceless.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:11 AM
I just floated on the hills and grayed out on the helix again on NITRO. Awesomeness and consistent deliverer. It's a honor it's modeled upon.
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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:09 AM
This announcement excites me about as much as a skycoaster being added to some Family Fun Center in India. I really see nothing in this ride that makes me want to go to Canada.

It'll be a fine ride, but nothing I couldn't find in every other B&M hyper made. Good for Canada, I guess.

BTW, I too miss the B&M hump. It makes every coaster it's on a lot better. GA Scorcher for example, has a fantastic airtime moment on the first drop, then straight into the knee-weakening forces of the big loop. Without that hump it wouldn't get the speed up, and wouldn't be the same.


Chattanooga needs a [B][I]ITG2[/I][/B] Machine!
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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:55 AM
I guess I'll chime in here:

First, I think the ride looks great. I love the layout; granted, it's similar to other hypers but that doesn't mean it still won't be a great ride.

Second, I don't see any issue with the trains - yea, maybe loading and stuff will be kinda tricky but its gonna ride like a Beemer, and the longer train will probably make the airtime in the front and back that much better. Plus, think how awesome sitting on the outside all by yourself will be. Personally, I don't like being scrunched up next to someone on a coaster, even if they're a close friend. I will admit, however, that I'm probably in the minority on that one - most people like sitting next to someone and holding hands or whatever.

Third, I really am not understanding all of the trims. Let's assume the trims are used: why design a ride with trims when you could just make the hills a little bigger to adjust for the speed? Assuming the trims will not be used (a la Dominator), then why have them there at all? Just in case you need them later? If most coasters don't need trims then I don't see why B&M is building them into their coasters.

Here's another thing with this - B&M's trims on their hypers seems to go across the board. Raging Bull has em', Silverstar has em', Goliath at La Ronde has em'. This certainly seems to be a B&M thing and not a park thing. And why three trims on every hill?

Again, I'm not bashing on the ride, as I think it looks great. I am really confused about the trims though.

Lastly, part of me wonders why this ride didn't go in at King's Island. Obviously since PCW has Tomb Raider it didn't need a flyer but I have always thought PKI really needed one good nonlooping steel coaster (although I absolutely love Adventure Express and Top Gun). This is more of an exploratory question than a statement since I think Firehawk fits in wonderfully at PKI. I suppose as an enthusiast I think every park should have a B&M hyper!

In the end I trust that Cedar Fair knows what they are doing.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:55 AM
^

CW has a large assortment of coasters ranging from not so great to pretty good. There hasn't been a new ride in two years. They also need something that will swallow up lines....like a sweet new B&M Hyper!!!

Also IMO the new seating arrangement will be a benefit to the crew and for throughput as well. If the bullpen on the loading dock is set up well, then should be a smooth operation. People generally have a hard time grouping themselves into 4s or don't like sitting next to strangers.

At CW the loader has to check hand stamps on waiting riders in addition to checking restraints. (For whatever reason most of them don't do this until the train is already in the station.) On and regular B&M train with 4 across, a lot of seats would go out empty or trains would be held up while loader tried to fill the empties. Riders are pretty good at naturally pairing themselves up so think this weird seating arrangement could be a good thing for throughput.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:23 AM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar I believe the reason why B&M designs their coasters with trims is because as usual they are "control freaks" and want their coaster to operate exactly the same under any conditions. The trims are generally speed activated. So if the train is going a bit faster than the control freaks intended at a certain point in the ride, the trim kicks in to bring the train back down to B&M's desired design speed. For example, there is a trim coming out of Goliath Over Georgia's helix. But it only seems to kick in later in the day when the train is going faster than when it starts off the day.

Most coasters seem to leave a lot more to chance in how they operate through out the day, but B&M seem to want to remove as much potential as they can for increased excitement due to the ride breaking in over the course of the day.

Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong. ;)


AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:24 AM
Jeff's avatar What is with this "all of the trims" nonsense? There's a mid-course brake, that frankly we don't know anything about other than Keith making the choice to insert the noise in his animation.

Every three-train B&M I can think of has a mid-course block that frequently doubles as a trim. You may recall John Wardley, the designer, mentioning in an interview that since a train is designed to complete the course from a dead stop (in a block violation scenario), that this creates a pretty big delta between the forces of that dead stop run and an untrimmed run from that midpoint.

Everyone makes it out to be this castrating move by guys in suits who want to piss off a bunch of unimportant enthusiasts shaking their fists in the air and saying, "I'll show you!" The reality is less sexy, and little more than a design factor present in most every long course built in the last 30 years with a mid-course block.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:40 AM
I think most people were bitching about the three trims on the bunny hills, not the MCBR.
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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:01 AM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar Yes, the series of large hills leading up to the block brake all have trims on them in the animation. *** Edited 8/28/2007 2:04:27 PM UTC by Acoustic Viscosity***

AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:04 AM
matt.'s avatar ^Yeah. On a lot of coasters I actually like the brief reprieve a MCBR can provide, makes things a little more interesting/dramatic with the pacing. Putting trims all over the ride is potentially a whole different matter depending on how the ride runs, how hard they're grabbing, etc.
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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:38 AM
rollergator's avatar On MCBRs, I anticipate being slowed down and if it turns out to be a quick *ch-ch* and off the midcourse I call it a "pleasant surprise".

But jamming brakes set on *hard GRAB* all over a layout can be kinda a buzzkill. Looks at Raging Bull, shakes head...

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:41 AM

Jeff said:
Everyone makes it out to be this castrating move by guys in suits who want to piss off a bunch of unimportant enthusiasts shaking their fists in the air and saying, "I'll show you!"

I never said or implied that, I was simply wondering why B&M's longer courses seem to have assorted trims throughout the course. I think AV Matt's ^^ explanation makes the most sense. It is interesting though, since the B&M loopers don't see trims the way the hypers do. I'm just curious about that fact.

Looking forward to the Fall Affair,

-Craig

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:55 AM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar I know Wildfire has a speed activated trim around cobra roll. I'm guessing much of the other B&M loopers have similar trims. The thing is, they usually aren't noticed or don;'t even kick in on the loopers. The one on Wildfire seems to be really sensitive. You can stand on the observation platform watching trains go by and hear the trim kick in sometimes and not others. It's not a beginning of the day versus end of the day sort of speed increase in that case, but a slight variation in speed from train to train due to varying passenger loads and wind I suppose. Again, an example of how B&M seem to want to have complete control over the ride and make it more a fine-tuned machine than a traditional coaster where the experience varies from ride to ride.

AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:22 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar I have NO idea what kind they are, but if they happen to be magnetic, there's no way to turn them off. Of course, if they're all magnetic, why in the heck would they be there and how in heck will the train make it through them, especially in the morning?

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:11 PM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar Andy, if they are magnetic, don't they just slow the train proportional to it incoming speed? So if the train is going slow, the magnetic brake should have little effect, where as if the train enters with a good speed, the effect of the magnetic field is greater and results in the train slowing more, but still to an approximate design speed. Kingda KA has a magnetic trim at the top. I assume Dragster does also?

AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:13 PM
Behemoth is going to be stepping on IJ, Will this help IJ 's theming, with a giant blue support in the middle of the ride.

Bolliger/Mabillard for President in '08 NOT Dinn/Summers

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:39 PM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar It can't look any worse. ;)

Seriously, it may benefit the IJ experience as another piece of industrial scenery.


AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:24 PM
Considering that most of IJ's themeing doesn't work anymore (fire, water cannon, helicopter) I don't think they care much. *** Edited 8/29/2007 1:25:11 AM UTC by Cropsey***
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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:05 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar

Acoustic Viscosity said:
Andy, if they are magnetic, don't they just slow the train proportional to it incoming speed? So if the train is going slow, the magnetic brake should have little effect, where as if the train enters with a good speed, the effect of the magnetic field is greater and results in the train slowing more, but still to an approximate design speed. Kingda KA has a magnetic trim at the top. I assume Dragster does also?

Dragster does not. I've been told this was to increase reliability as it would allow for more variance on the launch while cresting the top at a safe speed.

My original point was: the magnetic trims could certainly be a part of the original design, but since they aren't alterable, why not just change the design? You know, smooth out the hill or something. I suppose they could use it to keep the train under a certain speed since it brakes more when the train's going faster, but my impression was that the braking force doesn't drop off significantly until the train is crawling through (for instance, when you hit the final brakes on the S:RoSes or MF the brakes don't let up until you're at a near stop).

If you have active trims (friction) then they can test it and see how much braking force they want to apply and adjust them according to the day, the crowds, or their evil whims.


Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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