Clementon Park's new owners hope to improve experience

Tekwardo said:
Bill you keep saying no one vacations at six flags. No one is disagreeing with you. But staying over nite at a hotel doesn't mean they're vacationing.

What are they doing then? LOL I cant wait to hear this.

Aren't they going to need their boss to sign off on their vacation day?

Seriously? You're going to argue semantics? I'm sorry but a day or weekend trip to a park isn't what I'd consider a vacation.

Ps I've taken plenty of vacation days and simply stayed home.

Okay, I thought some of you guys were going too far by chasing this guy around through a variety of threads. The "vacation" comment has changed my mind. This guy is a troll.

Spending an enjoyable day or 2 at a park. When I think of a vacation, the shortest duration I think of would be a long weekend.

On a side note, I can't believe I'm still reading this thread. That being said, I'm dome. Bill is giving me a headache.

A one night hotel stay is not a vacation. It is a convenience. If your vacations consist of one night away from home, you take some seriously ****ty vacations.

Tekwardo said:
Seriously? You're going to argue semantics? I'm sorry but a day or weekend trip to a park isn't what I'd consider a vacation.

Ps I've taken plenty of vacation days and simply stayed home.

You never answered the question. What are they doing?

A) what question? An over nite stay isn't a vacation. Kpjb summed it up nicely
B) lwhat and you dont avoid questions to suit you argument all the time?

billb7581 said:

but real-world obsevered patterns and intimate knowledge of the hospitality and amusement industries.

In Akron Ohio, which is relevant how, exactly?

Actually, I know that myself and at least a few others that have chimed in on this discussion have working experience at several resorts in two completely different areas of the country, that catered to two completely different sets of visitors. Some of us also sit down and have lunch/dinner with some corporate and high park-level execs at press events or even just outside of work. Some here even count them among their personal friends. The names of companies on resumes of individuals in here include Disney, Universal, Cedar Fair, and Six Flags (among others, I'm sure). We've taken the time to understand our industry on a much deeper level than most, and have fostered a community that thrives on that knowledge (with some personal humor and discussion thrown in). In fact, one of my personal friends is an operations manager out at Coney, one was in a similar position at a southern park...I think you're getting the picture.

The point is, despite what you think, you're debating this with a group of people that have a very wide-ranging knowledge of the industry and are very well-traveled. We fall back to Cedar Point and the surrounding area at times because there are similarities, it is one of the most popular and well-known parks, and for many of us, it is a common park of extra interest.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

What does any of that have to do with the feasibility of a hotel in Jackson Township New Jersey?

You said that the problem wouldn't be the profitability of the hotel, the problem would be the costs associated with improving the infrastructure. From any finance/accounting/economic analysis of the situation the two are inextricably linked.

Costly initial outlays wouldn't stop a project in it's tracks if the eventual profitibility of the project would cover the sunk costs involved with building it, or the financing of these costs.

I dont care if you wear the mickey mouse suit, or pour tea at the Cinderella

breakfast. You're still just offering up your opinion, and the opinion of someone who lives 7 hours away, not the typical Six Flags visitor.

Heck as I click through the profiles in this thread, behold what do I see, North Carolina, Indiana, Ohio, Pittsburgh, etc..... noone who lives near Six Flags though, except maybe that Mike Galagher guy. Like I said, a bunch of coaster enthusiasts who live hundreds of miles away are going to belive that a hotel is of utmost importance.... but none of you really fit the profile of a typical GA visitor.

No, that has nothing to do with a hotel in Jackson, but it has everything to do with your claims/statements on the last page to what Gonch and LK were saying. People on here do actually know what we're talking about, contrary to what you seem to think. You might make the comparison of several of us involved in this discussion as being players on Minor League rosters on a sports message board. Maybe not the best example, but I just came back from a Minor League game and it was the first thing that came to mind.

There is kindly no need to quote a post that is right above yours, Billb. EDIT - Looks like you fixed it before I posted this. Looks good!

And when you want to double post, kindly look and see if maybe it would make sense to just edit you last post and add to it that way. That's just the way we do things around here, and I am seriously trying to help you when I tell you that...

What MaxairMike's post has to do with "your" topic is that some people here know what we are talking about. It's a good explanation to help you to understand where people are coming from... and maybe to let you realize that you don't know what you are talking about. :)

And I used to be a typical SFGAdv visitor, somewhat. I used to live in State College, PA. People who lived there would drive the 5 hours all of the time to visit the park, and one of the complaints was the lack of a closer hotel, and that was maybe five to ten years ago.

I've been busy clicking on profiles, I should have done this sooner. The biggest advocates for this hypothetical hotel all live far away, LOL, and are coaster enthusiasts, to boot. No Wonder.

According to the tourism study I linked previously, Pittsburgh nor Ohio are in the top 10 of places where NJ tourists are coming from.

Visitor Origins by
Designated Market
Area (DMA)
New York
Philadelphia
Washington DC
Boston
Baltimore
Wilkes Barre
Harrisburg
Hartford
Albany

Grand Rapids4

. Grand Rapids has this footnote.

4Grand Rapids DMA (not shown) had more visitors than Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Providence, Cincinnati, Norfolk, Richmond and Roanoke.

http://intraweb.stockton.edu/eyos/business/content/docs/njtourism/tourism_08_brochure.pdf

Admittedly the general NJ tourist profile and the typical GA guest profile probably dont match up perfectly, but they should be pretty close.

I dont know if State College is really in the mix either, what metro area is that. Other than Big 10 network, what channels do you get on the TV there?

billb7581 said:
In Akron Ohio, which is relevant how, exactly?

I don't now, nor have I ever lived in Akron. But I have lived in many places Miami, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Allentown and such. Since I've been 18, the longest I've lived in one area is 4 years and that's where I am now in western Ohio.

Not to mention the extensive time I've spent traveling over the past two decades, or the lifetime of experience with the hospitality industy with friends and contacts all over the country, or the countless friends, aquaintences and contacts in the amusement industry also geographically diverse in their locations.

You're talking to someone whose family's only sources of income are the hospitality and amusement industries.

And I'm not the only one.

That's kinda what I've been trying to be nice in telling you a few times. You're trying to argue with people who know their stuff. It's not a bunch of kiddies and fanny-pack wearing, gravy slurpers. Most people trying to have decent conversations about this are very knowledgeable, well-traveled folks who've spent a great deal of time interacting with the various aspects of the industries in question.

Since that continually seems to be going over your head, I hope this makes it clearer. Basically, your only credibility is that you watch area traffic patterns, talk to friends and know it's cooler by the ocean than inland.

You're essentially telling the brain surgeon he's doing it wrong and claiming living next to a hospital makes you qualified to say as much.

NJ and the whole Philly/NYC thing don't exist in a bubble. There's larger trends at play that are consistent on industry-wide levels. I don't care if you personally lived in a box outside the gates of SFGAdv since the place was built and observed traffic patterns and talked to friends about their travel plans - it doesn't mean dick.

People stay at hotels at amusement parks. Amusement parks all across the country have busy, profitable hotels. One would work at SFGAdv without question. There's nothing to debate there. SFGAdv is the anomaly. The odd exception.

The interesting angle here is why we haven't seen one yet, when we will, and what the deal is.

I can tell you right now, nowhere in that equation is the problem that no one would stay there. You're flat out wrong and the deeper you dig the hole, the more ridiculous it gets. Your ideas about how people use hotels is flat out wrong. Your ideas about how people visit amusement parks is flat out wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. You're just going to reply with the same weird replies that makes less sense than the last weird reply. (and probably spell something incorrectly in the process :) )

But trust the handful of people still wasting their time with this. We know our stuff.

Now that...that I truly have no idea what that has to do with anything mentioned. Are you suggesting Michigan's Adventure needs a hotel (Mapquest admittedly made my life hell on that trip, so I have a biased view of the surrounding area)? As to where we all live, that doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying, or what we know about the industry.

Edit: Gonch got in before me, this was in response to Billb.

Edit 2: What Gonch said, x100000000000. The last 5 years of my life have been the amusement/hospitality industry, with a current "break" for some social media work. I'm on the low end of the time span in this discussion.

Lord Gonchar said:
fanny-pack wearing, gravy slurpers

Admittedly I've been drinking tonight, but this made me lol for realz.

I'm offering an explanation why GA is an anomoly, there are more desirable destinations not far away that offer a spot for dad to golf, mom to shop and the kids to ride rides.

You have no idea why there is no hotel there either, but are just couching it in ad populums, ad homenims and a non existant apeal to authority because you took some pictures of a roller coaster.

Your saying I'm wrong, doesnt make it so, no matter how much you and your merry band of coaster dorks want it to.

We know our stuff

LOL.. at this. Don't strain a muscle patting yourself on the back.

Now that...that I truly have no idea what that has to do with anything mentioned. Are you suggesting Michigan's Adventure needs a hotel (Mapquest admittedly made my life hell on that trip, so I have a biased view of the surrounding area)? As to where we all live, that doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying, or what we know about the industry

Michagan Adventure? The list I posted is a list of where visitors to NJ originate from from greates to least.

billb7581 said:
You have no idea why there is no hotel there either, but are just couching it in ad populums, ad homenims and a non existant apeal to authority because you took some pictures of a roller coaster.

Heh. No, that'd be your kind of logical connection. There's way more credibility here than that.

And it's further proof you know nothing about the people you're having this conversation with.

But you're right, I don't know why there's not a hotel there. By all reasonable metrics and measures, there should be.

Which is why I tried to discuss some of the area, availability and development with you a few pages back, because I can almost guarantee the answer lies in that angle somewhere.

Your saying I'm wrong, doesnt make it so, no matter how much you and your merry band of coaster dorks want it to.

:)

The same way you making the same incorrect assumptions over and over again doesn't make you right, no matter how much you want it to?

billb7581 said:
I'm offering an explanation why GA is an anomoly, there are more desirable destinations not far away that offer a spot for dad to golf, mom to shop and the kids to ride rides.

You have no idea why there is no hotel there either, but are just couching it in ad populums, ad homenims and a non existant apeal to authority because you took some pictures of a roller coaster.

Your saying I'm wrong, doesnt make it so, no matter how much you and your merry band of coaster dorks want it to.

You really have no idea, do you? Ever sat down and had a discussion with someone from Sage Hospitality? Discussed operational procedures with an operations manager? Discussed the goals of a newly opened hotel on International Drive with the General Manager? Done any of the above in conjunction with a job? We do more than take pictures of big, shiny rolly-coaster rides and talk about pancakes. A lot more. A lot of us have personally made your vacations and family outings more enjoyable, in a rather direct way.

Six Flags has the zoning. The problem is likely wastewater treatment and getting piped into the sewer system. But like I said, these are hurdles that don't scuttle a profitable enterprise.

You really have no idea, do you? Ever sat down and had a discussion with someone from Sage Hospitality? Discussed operational procedures with an operations manager? Discussed the goals of a newly opened hotel on International Drive with the General Manager? Done any of the above in conjunction with a job? We do more than take pictures of big, shiny rolly-coaster rides and talk about pancakes. A lot more. A lot of us have personally made your vacations and family outings more enjoyable, in a rather direct way.

What does this have to do with you or your opinion of the feasibility of a Jackson Twp Hotel?

You say X is true.

You spoke to source Y about something entirely different.

Y is authoritative

therefore X is true?