Clementon Park's new owners hope to improve experience

billb7581 said:
I wont disagree with any of that, but you have to admit the members of this board do not represent an accurate sample of whether sufficient demand exists or not. If GA was going to do a marketing survey of the people attending the park, the responses wouldn't be all coaster enthusiasts who lived 500 miles away...

Very true.

But what the members of this board (especially those engaged in the conversation) represent is a vast wealth of knowledge on various related subjects - travel, tourism, trends, the amusement industry, business, etc - based on years of varying degrees of experience, interest and employment in said fields.

It's not like it's a bunch of teenagers that like to ride rollie coasters.

billb7581 said:
I wont disagree with any of that, but you have to admit the members of this board do not represent an accurate sample of whether sufficient demand exists or not.

Unlike you, members of this board are already willing to admit that, and seem to be more than a little better at debating how the world really works.

So now, understanding how Arkon works = " understanding the World?

LOL...

Very true.

But what the members of this board (especially those engaged in the conversation) represent is a vast wealth of knowledge on various related subjects - travel, tourism, trends, the amusement industry, business, etc - based on years of varying degrees of experience, interest and employment in said fields.

It's not like it's a bunch of teenagers that like to ride rollie coasters.

From what I gather they don't understand this area, nor do they understand why people who live so close to GA, would choose not to vacation there. If you lived where I do you'd have season passes. Out of the hundreds of people I know in my town, noone has them nor ever mentions going there.

I think the problem is that the people you know are not typical amusement park go'ers.

You're looking at the exception as the rule.

I don't doubt your sincerity or your belief in what you're saying for even a second, but I think you're looking the wrong place to find your answer.

Not true, darn near everyone I know goes to Knoebels annually, Disney sporadically, or one of the shore towns with rides annually. Kids go to GA on school trips or when they're old enough to drive.

I think the problem is 180 degrees opposite of what you are saying. The average parent doesnt care how tall Kingda Ka is, or the airtime on Rolling Thunder.

I just witnessed the overal travel patterns today while watching the news. Any road leading to the shore or the mountains was a parking lot. I came up 95 to go home and there wasn't any traffic at all.

Sorry to go off topic. I know this is a thread about the merits of building a hotel by Great Adventure.

But, I'll be making my first ever visit to Clementon Park tomorrow. With a few other stops first, I'm looking forward to Hell Cat being my 666th coaster. :-)

And now back to your regularly scheduled beating of a dead horse.

billb7581 said:
members of this board do not represent an accurate sample of whether sufficient demand exists or not. If GA was going to do a marketing survey of the people attending the park, the responses wouldn't be all coaster enthusiasts who lived 500 miles away....it would be quite the opposite, mostly people who lived within an hour or two with varying degrees of coaster enthusiasm.

I'd cast the net that SFGAdv gets it's customers from a little wider. It's probably more like three or four hours. Most families that I know would easily drive that far to get to a park, and even though there are other parks nearby, like Hershey and Dorney, and the shore (or "beach" as us West Virginians call it), people like to visit different parks every once in a while, in my experience, anyhow. Besides, that doesn't matter to the discussion, because we already know that SFGAdv does pretty well as far as attendance goes (lol about three million people per year lol).

it's all just speculation at this point by a self important message board "expert"

I wrote a whole humble "I am no expert but there are some here who are" spiel, but I deleted it because I got to really thinking about it. I bet our friends and family would consider most of us experts on the subject of amusement parks and roller coasters. I didn't mean for that to sound like I was bragging or anything. I truly wanted you to understand where I, and maybe others who are also against your (goofy) opinion, are coming from.

Comparing CP to GA is apples to oranges. You don't have the larger tourist draw of the Atlantic Ocean with all it's ammenities 30 minutes away from CP.

Now you said that in reply to something I said, and that something never once mentioned Cedar Point. There are more seasonal amusement parks, and more hotels that cater to their customers, than just Cedar Point. You must have misunderstood what I was trying to get across.

But since you did mention Cedar Point, the area surrounding area does have a lot of touristy stuff to do. Cleveland has an awesome Zoo, Aquarium, The Hard Rock Cafe, The Rock 'n' Roll Hal of Fame, an indoor amusement park (is that still open?), Geauga Lake (or whatever they are calling it this year), outlet malls, and other stuff I'm sure. Near Cedar Point is various Islands where people like to take day trips to, Boat excursions, fishing (which, as I understand, is very popular in that area), mini golf and arcade attractions, an incredible haunted house, several indoor water park / hotels, and many other Lake Erie attractions.

My point is, the Cedar Point / Cleveland area is a very popular tourist destination. Just because the NJ shore area may be (or may not be, I don't really know) get more tourists doesn't matter, because if I were to compare the two in this conversation, it would be merely to give an example. It's probably the best example I can think of.

From what I gather they don't understand this area, nor do they understand why people who live so close to GA, would choose not to vacation there. If you lived where I do you'd have season passes. Out of the hundreds of people I know in my town, noone has them nor ever mentions going there.

Six Flags is a popular amusement park, even if your friends, family, coworkers, or neighbors are not going. I believe that the park gets close to the same attendance as other comparatively large theme parks like it, probably around three mi...

LOL, Okay, I won't say the number, but that number seems to be my answer to whenever you claim that no one is going to the park. That is a smokescreen, Billb. It doesn't matter that you don't know anyone who goes to the park, or that everyone you knows prefers the shore because it's 10° cooler and breezier and there is less humidity, or that the roads leading to the park are congested, or whatever you are talking about.

I think the problem is 180 degrees opposite of what you are saying. The average parent doesnt care how tall Kingda Ka is, or the airtime on Rolling Thunder.

But the average parent doesn't decide which amusement park their kids are begging to go to. Kids see the commercials, hear their friends talk about how many and how big the coaster there are, and see photos of their friends on Facebook riding the new big ride at Six Flags. They then continue to harrass and beg, and kick and sceram, and use mind game, and whatever other tactic they can think of to get their parents to take them to Six Flags.

Besides, that doesn't matter. You can probably already guess that I am going to say that the park is already popular. How many people are estimated to visit per year? Three hundred? Nope. Three hundred thousand? Wrong again. Try...THREE MEEELION PEEEEOPLE!! lol

So, I'm getting tire of repeating myself here. What do you think about Flashpass, Billb? ;)

Oh, and that's kinda creepy, Hammond. I'd probably stop with my 665th coaster, or maybe make my 666th coaster ... Shoot, I can't think of any heavenly themed roller coasters.

Roller coasters are Satanic. lol

billb7581 said:
Not true, darn near everyone I know goes to Knoebels annually, Disney sporadically, or one of the shore towns with rides annually. Kids go to GA on school trips or when they're old enough to drive.

Great. That's your circle of influence, and not indicitive of anything beyond the people you know.

For every exceptional example you give, someone here can give you the opposite and equally exceptional example from their own circle of influence.

The average parent doesnt care how tall Kingda Ka is, or the airtime on Rolling Thunder.

I agree 100%. Too bad none of that is the basis for anything relevant to the conversation.

If anything, I'd argue the more casual the visitor and the more family oriented, the more likely to be interested in utilizing a hotel near the park.

And I base that belief not on anecdotal evidence, but real-world obsevered patterns and intimate knowledge of the hospitality and amusement industries.

I just witnessed the overal travel patterns today while watching the news. Any road leading to the shore or the mountains was a parking lot. I came up 95 to go home and there wasn't any traffic at all.

Wonderful.

But the traffic patterns are absolutely meaningless in determining the interest in a hotel near SFGAdv. You keep citing it like it matters. Even with the roads the way you saw them, 3 million people are going to SFGAdv this year. Are even more going to the shore or the mountains? Most likely. I'd hope so, at least. But it doesn't matter.

Lord Gonchar said:

3 million people are going to SFGAdv this year.

My new favorite number... lol It's been burned into my subconscious.

Yeah, and it's just an estimate. (an inflated one, even)

But for all intents and purposes, the park in the the 3 million ballpark.

Lord Gonchar said:
I don't doubt your sincerity or your belief in what you're saying for even a second, but I think you're looking the wrong place to find your answer.

You're willing to offer more credit than I am. It seems to me that each time we get close to some common ground or at least an understanding of the misunderstanding, billb comes back even more adamant than before that he is right and the rest of the forum is wrong. And now he can be found taking shots in other threads at people's signature links and avatars.

He may not be a troll exactly, but it's possible he is an extension of the species.

I'm the nurturer. :)

I hate everyone and everything. :)

but real-world obsevered patterns and intimate knowledge of the hospitality and amusement industries.

In Akron Ohio, which is relevant how, exactly?

their own circle of influence.

Which consists of other members of this message board, and living in Toledo or something... Who's sphere of influence is more relevant, someone 500 miles away or someone 20 miles away? If the park is drawing from the local area than I would argue it's the latter. And no matter how many Cedar Point, Breakers comparisons you want to make, they are irrelevant with respect to a hotel in Jackson Twp NJ. You're talking about an entirely different marketplace with different factors effecting the marketplace.

I'd argue the more casual the visitor and the more family oriented, the more likely to be interested in utilizing a hotel near the park.

And I'm arguing that the more family oriented the visitor who lives nearby, the more likely they are to be interested in vacationing somewhere else entirely.

,

3 million people are going to SFGAdv this year

.

With nary a hotel nearby. How does this demonstrate demand for one?

Gonch that's three million teens. Cause that's all that go there.

Bill you keep saying no one vacations at six flags. No one is disagreeing with you. But staying over nite at a hotel doesn't mean they're vacationing.

Tekwardo said:
Gonch that's three million teens. Cause that's all that go there.

They're going there now, no? Why do they go there absent a hotel?

And again, you don't build a hotel to draw guests. What part of that don't you get. You put a hotel where there is already a base Of people to draw from. Like the three million at great adventure.