Cedar Point announces record breaking dive roller coaster, Valravn

Jerk.

Tekwardo said:

I could be wrong, but I think it was Vater that said a few years ago that he can look at a ride and, based on his preferences and experience, not be excited about it. That is certainly how I feel with Valravn. It's a big pile of 'meh'. Not bad, not great. I don't need to ride it to know that an extra inversion (I'm not big on inversions anyway) and a slightly different turn is going to be SO MUCH BETTER than the two very similar rides I've already ridden.

Seriously though, I can't find fault with this logic. If you've ridden the others and it's not your thing, then it's not.

But that's not really what was/is being said a lot of the time and it's not the kind of comment I feel is included when we talk "enthusiast behavior" in a derogatory way.

You don't have to blow a sticky in your pants at every announcement, but what are you really adding by wonking about how "It's not what I expected?"

Okay, you don't like to be around people talking about coasters. Fine. That's probably doing more favors than is realized.

There's a reason I've only gone to a handful of events in my life and they've all be CBuzz events.

Consider it me doing my part for the community. :)

Tekwardo said:

... I think it was Vater that said a few years ago that he can look at a ride and, based on his preferences and experience, not be excited about it.

I agree with this. It's the broad proclamations that have on occasion been proclaimed about this currently non-existent coaster that have me making faces. One thing to look at a few minutes of CGI POV video and say, meh, this doesn't look like my kinda coaster. Different thing to look at the video and dub the thing a lame, underwhelming coaster.

Yes, this was financially a good choice. B&M coasters are reliable, move people, are popular, and there isn't another dive coaster for a few hours, and this is only the third in the country.

...this is very 'meh'.

Some people see 'meh'. I see an attractive coaster that looks like it will be fun to ride, built by a company with a solid track record, with the only two other such coasters in the country nine and 17 hours away.

RCMAC said:

It seems like the planner's vision is to make the new area as open as possible, with plenty of room for spectators to watch and wait.

Gazing adoringly at the various images today, I noticed several of the round plaza areas between Raptor and Valravn have benches. If so, a nice touch. Sit facing one way and you'll have a nice side view of Valravn's drop. Face the opposite way and you'll enjoy a view of Raptor's cobra roll from a whole new vantage point.

Lord Gonchar said:
I'm happy to ride whatever they build.

Exactly. This falls right in line with my philosophy that a bad day at amusement or theme park is far better than my best day at work. I just don't understand people that aren't happy unless they find a way to be unhappy about something. Or everything.

Exactly. I joke around about sleep aids and discuss the wish for diversifying a bit, but the end feelings I get when I hear a new coaster is going up:

1) I want to ride it.
2) Even a boring coaster is still a coaster. It wasn't so long ago that building slowed to a crawl. More coasters are signs of optimism that the amusement industry will not be going down the tubes anytime soon.
3) I wasn't "thrilled" by SheikRa, but I was damn close to soothed by it with its smoothness. Not every ride has to make me fly out of my seat or crap my pants to be fun or enjoyable.
4) Everyone in the CP community area should be happy. They get a brand spanking new ride. Dorney's last coasting addition was Stinger. MA? I don't even KNOW. I'd be kissing Ouimet's feet if DP got this same ride.

I'll never forget those first glorious laps on SheiKra with the second brake *kissing* the train...it flew over the second drop with super airtime. The holding brakes on Dive machines are possibly worse than the ones on Impulses. The difference is one kills pleasure, the other inflicts pain.

Tekwardo said:

It isn't like Rob or anyone in this thread was trying to be like Timber Rider. Not many people on this forum are going "OMG, this was such a mistake for CP to add" as they are saying "Wow, this looks boring, I expected more from Cedar Point based on their past, but whatever".

I agree with both Rob and Tek. I feel like some of the elder Coasterbuzz members are trying to be the elitists of coaster enthusiasm by proclaiming that too much enthusiasm is bad. Obsession is bad. The type of person Tek describes is useless to try and have a conversation with. I don't think that just because I'm not impressed with this ride, I should be lumped into that group by the coaster enthusiast elitists. I'm not impressed. Cedar Point has and can do better than this. This is the sort of thing we discuss here.

Everyone on this site, including the elders, are by definition coaster enthusiasts.

It's one thing to say "I personally am not excited by this announcement." It's a whole 'nother thing to claim Cedar Point is making a bad decision.

^That. So much that.

I think the really egregious error in judgment is more like "I think CP is making a bad decision because I personally am not excited."

^That, rollergator and that, ApolloAndy.

bjames said:

Cedar Point has and can do better than this.

I remain unclear on how such a definitive statement can be made based on a few minutes of CGI video. Can't you at least ride the ride before damning its shortcomings?

How does the park do "better" than a unique* record-breaking coaster?

*The only two other such coasters in the United States being nine and seventeen hours away from Cedar Point, Valravn is going to be a unique, new experience to 97.892714533% of the park's market.

ApolloAndy said:

It's one thing to say "I personally am not excited by this announcement." It's a whole 'nother thing to claim Cedar Point is making a bad decision.

I haven't seen anyone *here* saying that. There are people all over Facebook saying that. And I think they're wrong. But I haven't seen anyone here say anything other than "Lame, I thought Cedar Point could have came up with a better coaster".

Its why we are enthusiasts. Valravn is going to be a slightly different version of 2 other coasters many of us have ridden. Two other coasters that don't rate that high on any list I've seen. Two other coasters that are incredibly good for the parks they're in.

I'm not impressed.

I will say that I was disappointed in B&M (whom I love, mind you) being picked to build Fury, just because I tend to like Intamin airtime better...but I'd never been on an B&M Giga. I absolutely LOVE Fury, and there is something to be said for a wait and see approach. But...Carowinds got a new train on their boomerang. Guess what? It wasn't that impressive before I rode it because I knew what to expect.

In either case, I didn't say, nor have I seen here people saying, that it is a 'bad decision' for the park, just that they expect more. I think we as enthusiasts have the right to expect more sometimes. Not because a park owes us anything. I'm not coming from that angle what so ever. But Cedar Point has a legacy of adding unique coasters when they make a big cap ex purchase. I'm not even 'blaming' B&M for this being rather Cookie Cutter. They did what they were asked for. I personally would have liked to have seen a more interesting layout, and maybe some new features other than the restraints, which B&M need to make standard on all OTSR coasters. Because that is what I am used to from that park. This is a decent addition that itself isn't grabbing me and pulling me to the park next year.

A night or two at the Breakers, though...

Tekwardo said:

I think we as enthusiasts have the right to expect more sometimes.

No. We don't. We have, always, the opportunity to express and discuss our opinions. But a "right" to hold parks to our expectations? No.

But Cedar Point has a legacy of adding unique coasters when they make a big cap ex purchase.

Cedar Point, under a different regime, may have that legacy. Times have changed.

I have the right to expect whatever I want. I don't have the right to have those expectations met. There is a very real difference.

I haven't been here complaining too awful much because I honestly don't care that much about the coaster. I do get what Rob and others have said about how dissenting opinions have been treated in this case. But no one is prophesying the end of the business because what they're adding at the park is underwhelming to some.

And honestly? I expect WAY more from a perspective of adding something unique from the guy who ran Disneyland. Especially based on what he's been doing under his regime that can be attributed to him and the way the company is ran now. Everything he's been doing is WHY I personally expected more.

I am, however, excited about the new midway under the coaster.

Lord Gonchar said:

Jerk.

PS Have I told you lately that I love you for that? It's my new Mantra.

Sure; but what you expect and what is best for the company he's now running may not be the same thing.

bjames said:
I feel like some of the elder Coasterbuzz members are trying to be the elitists of coaster enthusiasm by proclaiming that too much enthusiasm is bad.

You're totally over thinking it. I think what we're saying is that most coasters are like sex or pizza. Even when they aren't that great, they're still pretty good.

Then again, when your 5-year-old puts his hands up on Thunder Mountain and thinks it's the greatest ride in the history of mankind, with smiles start to finish, it tends to ground you with a great deal of perspective.

Jeff said:

I think what we're saying is that most coasters are like sex or pizza. Even when they aren't that great, they're still pretty good.

This reminds me of CostaPlaya's "cold fries bad" coaster ranking.

bjames said:

I feel like some of the elder Coasterbuzz members are trying to be the elitists of coaster enthusiasm by proclaiming that too much enthusiasm is bad.

Enthusiasm is terrific. I like enthusiasm.

Negativity wears thin fast. Coaster enthusasts, in general, have opinions that are so often negative I'm usually left wondering if they actually enjoy roller coasters. I think they enjoy bitching about them more than anything. (and this is coming from the guy that loves to bitch about everything)

And there's different kinds of negativity too. And different ways of expressing it.

In general, don't be a tool. I've survived around here for almost 15 years pretty much constantly disagreeing with the consensus - because you can disagree in a positive way. In fact, I think I show real enthusiasm in my style of disageement.

Everyone on this site, including the elders, are by definition coaster enthusiasts.

Two things:

1. Yep, we're all enthusiasts. But I'm here because this group of enthusiasts - group of friends - most shares my sensibility and approach to the hobby. I enjoy being enthusiastic in the way this community expresses its enthusiasm. I found my like minded people. They have lives, are not social misfits (for the most part), don't take this too seriously, realize more than coasters matter (even within the spectrum of park enjoyment) and are not the patch wearing, pontificating, pulling out their membership card in line to correct a conversation they've been eavesdropping on, facepalm, embarssed to be seen with in public and identify with in any public way bunch that I've found elsewhere.

We are coaster enthusiasts around here. But we're so much more.

We're the good ones.

(smile)

2. I think we need an official panel of CoasterBuzz elders that are held in high regard and share the wisdom of the ages with the tribe using our ancient coaster spirituality.

And I want a nice outfit to go with the position.

With all of that said, if that's being elitist in some way, then so be it. I'm being elitist. I can assure you no sleep will be lost. I think it's more about community and finding your place. If you don't like what is said here, I encourage you to GTFO - and that applies to anyone. You don't have to like me - and that's ok. I understand. (sorry if I just drove all your traffic away, Jeff)

I think it was kind of funny that Rob had to come back and throw a hissy fit because we generalized about entitled, bitch-ass enthusiasts - all the while stamping his feet and acting in exactly the way we tend to poke fun at.

"This sucks because it doesn't live up to my arbitrary expectations!"

Jeff said:

I think what we're saying is that most coasters are like sex or pizza. Even when they aren't that great, they're still pretty good.

And in what world do you complain about the announcement of either coming your way?

Tekwardo said:

II don't care that the GP will eat this up. Good for them! I think it looks like the other ones I've been on.

And the point that most of their customers will eat this up and find it one of the most fun rides in the park is exactly why CP is building this ride. They could not care less if you like it or think it looks like the other ones.