Cedar Point announces record breaking dive roller coaster, Valravn

DS said:
My only gripe is not with Cedar Point's adding of this particular coaster, but with B&M. It just seems to me that they have lost the magic I used to get excited about.

Those bastards have a lot of nerve, always building the rides their clients want. When will they ever learn?

I have only ridden SheiKra, from among the Dive Coasters, but I massively enjoyed it, and always wanted to see more of them built! While this isn't the most earth-shattering design they could have gone with, and I am a sucker for the tunnel and enclosed drops that these coasters typically include, I still think it looks like possibly the best model out there. Even better, I consider CP to be my "home park", so I'll get to ride this beast frequently!

As good as the coaster looks, I think I am actually even more excited about the revamped Blue Streak/Marina pathway and area! I am LOVING how that looks on the renderings, and can't wait to see it in person! The skyline, and even the main midway experience at CP will be changed forever with this behemoth and its elements towering over everything on the west side of the front of the park!

Like others have touched on earlier in this thread, while this may not be the most exciting coaster for some "enthusiasts", it's going to be a MEGA-hit with the GP, and non-enthusiast crowd! Already, I have shown the images, and talked about the coaster with some of those in that category, and they are all quite impressed by it, if not a tad intimidated. Even though this is an "old" ride design, there are so few of them in the world, and even fewer in the US, that it will really seem like something new, and unique for most people visiting. You can tell a lot of thought and planning went into this coaster and the surrounding area, and I think they are going to receive rave reviews from the GP regarding this addition and park enhancements, much like GateKeeper - another falsely maligned coaster in enthusiast circles - and its surrounding areas have gotten!

I'm definitely looking forward to Media Day, or in lieu of that, my first visit once weekly operations begin after Opening Day! I'll even forgive the addition of yet another coaster featuring one of my least favorite colors prominantly! ;)

I found it amazing (not just here) how many people will bitch that something is lame when the footings haven't even been poured yet. A dive coaster would not have been my first choice due to my personal tastes but I recognize that I am not the supreme ruler of the universe. We're getting something big and even if it's not exactly what any one of us as an idividual was hoping for we should still be happy. We could have gotten a whole lot of nothing. Highly unlikely but it could happen.

Busch Gardens Williamsburg, Griffon carty thing.

DS said:

It just seems to me that they have lost the magic I used to get excited about. It just seems like the same coasters over and over and I want to see some innovation.

You know this is what's known as market saturation, right? You know why Vekoma rarely makes a boomerang anymore? Because there aren't many places left to build them. Gigantic $25 million+ steel roller coasters already have a limited number of places they can land, so guess what, you're going to see a lot of the same things appear in parks that can afford them.

And I'll never understand the need for the rides to be different, especially coming from people who travel all over the place to ride new coasters. The reason I stopped traveling all over the place was because the rides in far off places weren't different enough, and I didn't expect them to be.

bjames said:

And that huge patch of grass in the center of Valravn's layout is begging to be utilized.

I thought the same thing but I'm wondering just exactly how much room is there that can be utilized. I'm sure there is going to be fencing around the ride to keep would be phone retrievers from entering low zone areas. Could a flat ride of some sort be squeezed in there with room for queue? Things that make you go, hmmm.

Like others, I have only ridden Griffon, and that ride is in my personal top 10 favorite coasters. It's just so much fun from start to finish.

In fact, my first thought after riding Griffon for the first time was along the lines of, "I wish Cedar Point would build one of these".

So I looked out my window before bed, and wished with all my might on the first star I saw. So....you're welcome!

I had no idea that Griffon cart thingy existed. And I've probably been on Griffon 50+ times. That's super cool.

What I thought we were previously talking about is on the left side of the lift, which I now assume is a maintenance cart thingy that looks perpetually out of use. The more you know.

Some of the comments on other websites are comical, to put it kindly. My favorite was "Oh good, it looks like they're going to paint Raptor". Seriously.

These renderings are awesome, but are limited to the information available, or maybe more accurately, what's important. It seems like the planner's vision is to make the new area as open as possible, with plenty of room for spectators to watch and wait. I see that there's planned high fencing around the low areas and I'd imagine the grassy areas will have lower fences bordering the walkways. Cadillacs and Cedar Downs are still there and the large trees in and surrounding those rides will remain, which will maintain the shady vista from the Funway. Small, decorative trees under the new coaster would be nice, but who knows? All eyes on the walkways will likely be toward the sky and the ability to "interact" with a huge coaster is always awesome.
Cedar Point likes carts and small stands, and I see plenty of room for portable locations selling snacks, drinks, and a place to buy shirts and (very important) FastLane bands. Some are complaining that the walkways look generic CedarFair-ish and all these plazas are taking on the same shape. I think it's a nice, clean look and whenever I see the alternative that some parks supply, pea gravel and chain link, I'm glad our Ohio parks are planned to be functional and attractive.

But the rendering is intended mainly to showcase the new ride and it's hard to judge other amenities or improvements to the surroundings from it. Especially the condition of Raptor's paint job.

RCMAC said:

Some of the comments on other websites are comical, to put it kindly. My favorite was "Oh good, it looks like they're going to paint Raptor". Seriously.

But in all seriousness, Raptor is looking bad.

Also, we didn't get the updated renderings of the main entrance, and Gatekeepers entrance until, what, like March?

OhioStater said:

Griffon... is in my personal top 10 favorite coasters

Yes! I love it. It's just so much fun. Being at the top and slowly rolling to the drop, you have some time to take in the surrounding area from above. It's awesome. That slow roll also gives you a moment to anticipate the awesome hangtime and drop. It's so perfect, even before the ride gets moving.

In fact, my first thought after riding Griffon for the first time was along the lines of, "I wish Cedar Point would build one of these".

Exactly what I thought after my first ride. The size of the ride is something I would expect at Cedar Point, and it is unique enough to be different from other big coasters at the park. I think this is the best addition to the park since Millennium Force.

It's a lose-lose situation really. They are better off going minimalist in the early renderings rather than include "possible" ideas that may not happen. Maverick and Snake River Falls are two examples where early renderings had more themed details that never happened. No matter what, people will complain.

It's not like the planning and design team are "done" when a new ride is announced.

loriu said:
I thought the same thing but I'm wondering just exactly how much room is there that can be utilized. I'm sure there is going to be fencing around the ride to keep would be phone retrievers from entering low zone areas. Could a flat ride of some sort be squeezed in there with room for queue? Things that make you go, hmmm.

Intamin Free Fall!!

;)

I must be insane. I always come back to this site hoping that things changed a little but that never ends up being the case.

Enthusiast culture? Seriously?

When is it wrong to be critical of anything, especially when a site is dedicated to a hobby (where people are always going to be most critical because it's money they don't have to be spending)? Do I have to be thrilled when my favorite baseball team makes an idiotic trade or signs a player I don't think they should have signed? Is a video game review site in the wrong when they claim that this year's Call of Duty installment doesn't live up to last year's? Are amusement parks beyond criticism? Give me a freakin' break.

This coaster looks like it's going to be lame. At the very least, it looks entirely underwhelming, especially for a park that claims itself to be the Roller Coaster Capital of the World, and a ride that breaks soooooooooo many world records!!! It doesn't look any better than similar rides at Busch parks, and those were built almost a decade ago. No one is wrong for admitting that. Nor is anyone wrong for having expected it would have a splashdown or a tunnel or break the 300 foot barrier, or whatever they were expecting from this thing. For example, I just read that Super Mario Maker won't allow you to string together multiple levels. I expected it would and now that I found it won't, I'm just a little disappointed. I'm perfectly within my right to express that. Why shouldn't I?

When Valravn opens, maybe we'll all be blown away. Maybe it'll be the best thing ever. Maybe it'll make everyone forget every roller coaster that ever existed. Or maybe not. Right now, all we can do is speculate. This is a discussion forum, so speculate away.

Enthusiast culture? How about My Opinion Is Better Than Your Stupid Opinion Culture? Let's talk about that. Or not.

This coaster probably looks awesome to the general public. I would of rather had an Intamin Wooden coaster but the genral public beats out some random kid who likes roller coasters.

Rob Ascough said:

I must be insane. I always come back to this site hoping that things changed a little but that never ends up being the case.

Perhaps it isn't the site that needs to change.

Significant portions of enthusiasts for any hobby or fetish tend to have one thing in common: They're so into it that nothing is good enough, and it ceases to be fun. I for one, can't stand to be around "those people."

In our hobby, being critical is awesome. It offers a different perspective. Being critical of being critical, kind of sucks. Being critical of being critical of being critical really sucks. :D

Rob Ascough said:

I must be insane. I always come back to this site hoping that things changed a little but that never ends up being the case.

I feel the same way about enthusiasts. That's why I've learned to just limit my exposure to CoasterBuzz where no one takes it so seriously.

Enthusiast culture? Seriously?

Right? It's gotten to the point where you can use a term like enthusiast culture and everyone understands. Coaster enthusiasts have devolved into a caricature of themselves and lack the self awareness to realize it.

When is it wrong to be critical of anything, especially when a site is dedicated to a hobby (where people are always going to be most critical because it's money they don't have to be spending)?

When you start poo pooing everything to the point that it makes it hard for others to see your enjoyment of any aspect of the hobby.

Do I have to be thrilled when my favorite baseball team makes an idiotic trade or signs a player I don't think they should have signed?

No. But that's not really the same thing.

Is a video game review site in the wrong when they claim that this year's Call of Duty installment doesn't live up to last year's?

Opinion has no right or wrong. And, if they're saying it sucks based on nothing but the initial announcement, then yes. They're probably wrong and they're certainly not credible or worth wasting time on.

Are amusement parks beyond criticism?

No one ever said that.

Give me a freakin' break.

Indeed.

This coaster looks like it's going to be lame.

I think it looks fun.

At the very least, it looks entirely underwhelming, especially for a park that claims itself to be the Roller Coaster Capital of the World, and a ride that breaks soooooooooo many world records!!! It doesn't look any better than similar rides at Busch parks, and those were built almost a decade ago.

Heh. This is so rich that I'm a little overwhelmed and my reply senses are shutting down.

Those rides built a decade ago happen to be among my favorites, so yes, another one (in this case much closer to me) is cause for excitment. I'm not wrong for admitting that.

No one is wrong for admitting that.

And no one is wrong is they disagree with that.

Nor is anyone wrong for having expected it would have a splashdown or a tunnel or break the 300 foot barrier, or whatever they were expecting from this thing. For example, I just read that Super Mario Maker won't allow you to string together multiple levels. I expected it would and now that I found it won't, I'm just a little disappointed.

Because the cause for disappointment is your own inflated sense of what you want. Cedar Point never suggested any of those things and I suspect Nintendo didn't either. You're pissed that those companies didn't give you something that you fabricated in your own mind. Frankly, I'm disappointed no one has given me my million dollars for being so awesome yet. I mean, I expected it. Ity's the world's fault for not meeting my expectations.

I'm perfectly within my right to express that. Why shouldn't I?

Because it's embarassing, a little immature and, in this case, feels a little backhanded to an industry and park that often goes out of it's way to serve us - a subset of customers they have no need to go out of their way for.

When Valravn opens, maybe we'll all be blown away.

Probably not.

Maybe it'll be the best thing ever.

Almost certainly not.

Maybe it'll make everyone forget every roller coaster that ever existed.

Yeah, I think it's a safe "no" on that one.

Or maybe not.

Oh, ok.

Right now, all we can do is speculate. This is a discussion forum, so speculate away.

We were. I have speculated that I enjoy Griffon quite a bit and I suspect I will enjoy Valravn just as much.

Enthusiast culture? How about My Opinion Is Better Than Your Stupid Opinion Culture? Let's talk about that. Or not.

Stunning.

And this post sums up exactly what I said early about trying to exist on the fringe of the community. It's embarassing to be associated with. The inflated sense of entitlement and self-importance is baffling. I prefer to take no part in it.

I'm happy to ride whatever they build. I understand they don't build for me or people like me. They build for their broad customer base. Additions like this only serve toprove pleasing the enthusiast community isn't priority or necessary.

Bitch all you'd like. Amusement parks will continue to thrive by making decisions like this that serve an overwhelming majority of their customer base...

...and enthusiasts will be online whining about how they didn't get what they wanted. As usual.

Rob Ascough said:

I must be insane. I always come back to this site hoping that things changed a little but that never ends up being the case.

Well, that is an oft-quoted definition of insanity....

Do I have to be thrilled when my favorite baseball team makes an idiotic trade or signs a player I don't think they should have signed?

Nope. But some folks are finding Valravn wanting based on computer generated imagery, while, in your scenarios, you're responding to something that has actually happened.

It doesn't look any better than similar rides at Busch parks, and those were built almost a decade ago.

Assuming your track record is up to date, you haven't ridden either of those coasters. That a coaster you can't yet ride doesn't look any better to you than rides you haven't ridden but have looked at pictures of leaves me with little reason to take your description of the non-existent coaster as "lame" seriously.

....and while I"m writing drivel Lord Gonchar unleashes genius, and Coasterbuzz needs a Vote Up Multiplier button....

I actually have to side with Rob here. Yes, this was financially a good choice. B&M coasters are reliable, move people, are popular, and there isn't another dive coaster for a few hours, and this is only the third in the country. But, Rob isn't the only person here that has some credibility (as far as that goes on Coasterbuzz) that has said this is very 'meh'.

I've been on both Sheikra and Griffon. They're fun enough coasters. But they're far from the best rides in their respective parks, in my personal opinion. I don't care that the GP will eat this up. Good for them! I think it looks like the other ones I've been on.

And I also think that Sheikra looks better, based on the fact that I like theming better. And Sheikra has that, while this does not.

I could be wrong, but I think it was Vater that said a few years ago that he can look at a ride and, based on his preferences and experience, not be excited about it. That is certainly how I feel with Valravn. It's a big pile of 'meh'. Not bad, not great. I don't need to ride it to know that an extra inversion (I'm not big on inversions anyway) and a slightly different turn is going to be SO MUCH BETTER than the two very similar rides I've already ridden.

It isn't like Rob or anyone in this thread was trying to be like Timber Rider. Not many people on this forum are going "OMG, this was such a mistake for CP to add" as they are saying "Wow, this looks boring, I expected more from Cedar Point based on their past, but whatever".

How is that enthusiast culture? And for the record, as much as I can't stand to be around enthusiasses, I can't stand to be around people that feel like they need to avoid enthusiasts either. Okay, you don't like to be around people talking about coasters. Fine. That's probably doing more favors than is realized.