Cedar Point announces record breaking dive roller coaster, Valravn

I'd like Texas a whole lot better if only it weren't so full of those damn Texans.

What Lord Gonchar said,

One of the things I love about Coasterbuzz is that many of the people here "get" my view of this hobby and that common sensibility leads to interesting conversations. (And interesting digressions, as well.)

Lord Gonchar said:

...the patch wearing, pontificating, pulling out their membership card in line to correct a conversation they've been eavesdropping on...

I'm a card carrying member of ACE, and an active volunteer as well, but these kind of folks are folks I avoid.

Pete said:

And the point that most of their customers will eat this up and find it one of the most fun rides in the park is exactly why CP is building this ride. They could not care less if you like it or think it looks like the other ones.

People keep saying this like those of us that are underwhelmed are saying something that would be considered the opposite.

I know that. I've said as much. But that's not the point. My point is that regardless, on THIS particular forum, we discuss coasters and opinions. It is MY opinion that, as I've stated, while I'm sure the ride will be successful and popular, it's not that exciting *to me*.

I never said that it wasn't a good decision for the park, which is what keeps getting pointed out (that it in fact is a good decision). I personally don't care about the tide that much.

And as is the case with most places on the Internets, people are here to tell you why your opinion sucks. :)

I don't care one way or the other, i have ridden the other dive coasters and thought they were both ok rides at best. I for one was hoping for something unique from cp, which makes me think what was the last coaster cp added that wasn't built by B&M or intamin? Atleast SF adds different coasters built by other manufacturers.

But I don't care what people think about my opinion. What is annoying is the continued implication that people that don't care for the ride are also saying this is a bad decision for the park, when that hasn't been going on.

Besides, its no Seven Dwarves (Rolls Eyes)...

DS said:

My only gripe is ...with B&M. It just seems to me that they have lost the magic I used to get excited about. It just seems like the same coasters over and over and I want to see some innovation.

RyTroup said:

I feel like it is being added to just to add a coaster with no real intent.

bjames said:

Cedar Point has and can do better than this.

It was in response to these and the like.

It's my opinion that CP can do better. That doesn't mean I think that it was a bad business decision.

Edit: But neither of them are saying "OMG, Cedar Point made a stupid business decision and they're going to close down!"

I agree with both statements. It, to me, feels like a cap ex that was put out there with a meh coaster that they know is reliable and people will love, without much creativity. On the heels of Maverick and Gatekeeper, this seems devoid of any creativity.

gamerguy said:

Atleast SF adds different coasters built by other manufacturers.

I think you'll be waiting a long time for new Intamin rides at Cedar Fair parks.

Lord Gonchar said:

2. I think we need an official panel of CoasterBuzz elders that are held in high regard and share the wisdom of the ages with the tribe using our ancient coaster spirituality.

And I want a nice outfit to go with the position.

Ditto. I prefer a tribal outfit that doesn't cover my genitals or man boobs. I'd look more official. A banana is also a must.

I'll settle for a satin jacket.

And if you head over to PointBuzz you'll find page after page of fans who think Cedar Point should be building things just for them. That site skews to the younger set, and I sense many of them have never been further than Sandusky for rides, but they are probably the second most entitled, short-sighted fans in the world. (Disney fans being number one, of course...)

And that's the thing that gets annoying. I quit going to most enthusiast events a long time ago simply because I got sick of the crowd. I understand completely why there are those of us who prefer to remain on the fringe, as the number one rule of life is to eliminate the things that piss you off. I've found it's entirely possible to enjoy my hobby without all that, my track record speaks for itself, and I've learned to choose my companions carefully.
I also agree with our Tek that we're all entitled to our opinion, and Rob Ascough makes valid points as well. Experts and enthusiasts can be counted on to put a critical eye toward any new project, and that's a healthy thing at least for discussion's sake. Every single hobby out there, and I'd go so far as to say particularly those with primarily male participants, has those that seem to own the activity a little more than they should. Add the anonymity of the Internet to that and well, there ya go.

Do I see Cedar Point's latest addition as the best thing they've ever done? Or that they might've done? No. Do I have the greatest dive coaster layout in my head? Ok, sure. I'm on the record as being excited about the project, though, and especially after talking to my good friend in St. Louis who will be looking at a Larson Fireball in 2016. It's all quite relative, ain't it?

And I'm going to need two bananas.

Jeff said:

gamerguy said:

Atleast SF adds different coasters built by other manufacturers.

I think you'll be waiting a long time for new Intamin rides at Cedar Fair parks.

Thats not my point, im talking about, premier, s&s, RMC and others that can provide a different coaster experience. To me theres not much difference in a wing coaster and a dive coaster which are cp's last 2 additions as opposed to sfmm that added twisted colossus and full throttle as their last two coasters.

Most B&M's in a park...

Five - Six Flags Great Adventure

Four - Carowinds, Six Flags Great America, Six Flags Magic Mountain, Six Flags Over Georgia and Cedar Point

In addition to those *other* companies listed above, the U.S. has been fairly lacking in quality Mack products (to borrow from Chris Hardwick..."points" for BGT and USH). S&S is also diversifying its portfolio...GaleForce looks pretty sweet.

The choice isn't limited to just B&M or Intamin...

gamerguy said:
Thats not my point, im talking about, premier, s&s, RMC and others that can provide a different coaster experience. To me theres not much difference in a wing coaster and a dive coaster which are cp's last 2 additions as opposed to sfmm that added twisted colossus and full throttle as their last two coasters.

And while I haven't been on either one of those, I don't imagine those are different enough from other things I've been on to be different-er. Yeah, I totally get that the hardest of hardcore enthusiasts find enormous differences in the rides, but most guests don't. As I said before, frankly I don't. You can put me on Flight of Fear, Wicked Twister, Rock-n-Rollercoaster and Thunderbird, and I find that initial sensation to essentially be the same.

I think it all comes down to do things; 1) having an established working relationship with a developer (B & M), and 2) said company provides what they are looking for.

Out of sheer curiosity, how does the process start (typically)? What I mean is, do companies like Mack, B & M, etc., approach Cedar Point and say..."look what we could do for you?", or does Cedar Point approach the companies saying "we need this..".

Or both?

gamerguy said:

Atleast SF adds different coasters built by other manufacturers.

If you know who manufacturers a ride, you're not really in the key market for a park, you're way beyond that.

Also, if a manufacturer that you like (in terms of value for money, maintenance, uptime, availability of parts etc) - why shift too far way from that? With any inventory of hardware, no matter what it is, it almost always makes sense to reduce the variety in your stock.

So somebody 'splain to me how "the park can do better" or "I expect more" is much different than "we deserve better" or any of the asinine comments that we rag Timber Rider for spilling out that reek of a complete lack of understanding of business and economic principles. Isn't it entirely possible that, from a business, standpoint, with the budget they were given, that this was the best they could put together?

Um, Jeff? Your card, please.
:-)

I agree about that to an extent. We've all heard comments from friends and overheard enough park visitors to know that most folks don't know the difference between manufacturers, or even basic styles of rides. I've already been questioned about my impressions of Valravn, and most of my friends think its the most unique, scariest looking thing going. They will never know, until I tell them, that there's others like it and B&M, for a variety of reasons, are the go-to guys these days. Then they will promptly forget.

Those of us in the culture, though, are quite capable of recognizing these differences. And there are a few coaster whisperers who know and can tell the differences between, say, an Intamin, Premier, or B&M launch and make the appropriate recommendations. Or at least fill their wish lists. I think if most of us had our way we'd find parks as museums, with examples of rides from each and every producer out there, not necessarily considering cost, availability, working relationships, and stuff like that.

As for Mack, I've always heard cost may be the prohibitive factor there. Their Bobsled, the superior product as far as I'm concerned, has made only one appearance in the U.S. and Intamin got all the rest. An old story is that Kings Island looked into the Mack ride to go back by The Beast somewhere, but determined after the installation at KD that it was too expensive. Anyway, do we have a lot of Mack rides here? Offhand, I think not.

I wonder if the German enthusiasts gripe and moan because most of what they get at Europa are those tiresome, lameass Mack rides?