Breakout year for SF

I'm not the biggest fan of Six Flags but look at what Mark Shapiro has to deal with, a bunch of run down in debt parks. We all now that Six Flags could be better but I wouldn’t expect a big change in one year. You have to give every thing time.

No one is saying that the company had to completely turn things around in one year, but a lot of promises were made and not many of them were fulfilled. Shapiro is right for making changes and acknowledging that they have to be made, but he bit off more than he could chew. What happened to ALL rides being open and run at capacity? What happened to the entertainers that were laid off halfway through the season? It's stuff like that which makes people question whether things are going to change.

It's okay to boast that you're going to win the World Series, but make sure the team you own is the New York Yankees and not the Washington Nationals ;)

Give SF about two or three years. Even then, it might sub-par compared to CF.

Can Youppi *really* replace Mr. Six as the next SF mascot? :)

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Ajrides said:
I think if some of you sat down with Mark Shapiro and talked to him like I have

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lolololololololololololololololololol

C'mon guys, thread over, there's no way to refute this.

We should be honored to be in the graces of someone so connected!

I cast a vote to make ajrides the next SF mascot ;) "Hey kids, let's get excited about corporate cross-promotions!!!"

*** Edited 2/28/2007 9:21:58 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Actually I beleive aj has talked to mark shapiro. I am not going to mention the sites name but one of the mnoderators at this site has also talked to him.

He talked to him on one of the times that he was touring great adventure during operating hours.

One of shapiros comments to him was that he wanted to get Great Adventure some classic flat rides.

So I do beleive AJ talked to him.

If only I could talk for 3 minutes with Mark Shapiro. Then I could understand "its not easy running a Corp that is so far in debt." The insight that must have been gained.

Please feel free to correct me, maybe it was 4 minutes instead of 3. *** Edited 2/28/2007 11:51:35 PM UTC by matt.***

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Hopman said:
Give SF about two or three years. Even then, it might sub-par compared to CF.

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you obviously haven't been to Kings Dominion

I don't remember if it was Rob or someone else who first mentioned that corporate sponsorship of an attraction makes no big deal to most riders.

One way that it could even backfire would be if there are many peeps waiting for 90 minutes in the hot July sun for a 2 minute ride. Then it breaks down. Not only do you have people mad at the park, you now can now thank (Insert sponsor here) for wasting your time.

If ajrides did talk to Shapiro, I'd be amazed. He certainly doesn't conduct himself as someone mature enough to have such a mature conversation.

It was me that said corporate sponsorships don't usually bother me. Rides at Disney parks have been sponsored by corporations for years and while I don't get these warm, fuzzy feelings for Siemens and FedEx because I've ridden Spaceship Earth and Space Mountain, I can't say I get offended because the sponsorship isn't drilled into my head relentlessly. However, turning everything into a billboard is a bit annoying... it's as if the park completely sold-out.

Never thought about people associating a slow-moving/non-operating ride with the company sponsoring it. Good point. Maybe some companies would want to think twice about sponsoring a Six Flags ride?

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crazy horse said:
Thats funny, because when I went to magic mountain a few months ago, there was no mention of the 15 rides that were not operating on there web site. And yes, I do mean 15 rides were not operating!

And yes, I did look on the sfmm web site the day of going, and the only ride that was listed was x. What about the other 14 rides? No metion. Why should six flags care? They got my money.

At least disney lets you know what attractions will not be operating before you spend loads of money to travel to the park.

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I really don't understand the point you're trying to get across here. Here you have Magic Mountain, a park that is not COMPLETELY year-round like Disney, but is open on the weekends for operation in what Six Flags considered a "winter operating season." During this time of year, patron numbers dwindle, meaning the low attendance does not warrant so many attractions to be staffed and open. Whether or not Magic Mountain should just convert to a seasonal operational is a whole 'nother thing.

Keep in mind "winter operating season" for Magic Mountain is what "off-season" is for most other parks around the country. Magic Mountain and the fully year-round SoCal parks like Disneyland, California Adventure, and Knott's uses this time to refurbish rides while the park is open in a time where all other parks across the nation are closed for the season. You can't honestly tell me you were surprised that 15 of the park's 50-some rides were closed when you went "a few months ago"?

I'll give it to you that if the park is going to be open for business, it would be a courtesy to guests to alert them of closed attractions on their web-site. But keep in mind, the park DOES post a daily-updated list of closed attractions outside the parking lot booths, which should it upset you, you can still turn around and go home rather than going into the park and be disappointed. Sure, that's a bit ridiculous to suggest to anyone that's driven over 20 miles to visit the park, but if it upsets you THAT much that a log flume, 5 mediocre flatrides and two of its 17 roller coasters you weren't going to ride anyway were closed for low-season maintenance, then I don't see why you should be so distraught if you decided to enter the park anyway.

I'm not a fanboy. Though I did purchase a 2006 season pass last year (mainly due to Tatsu) to the park, but I will not visit again this season. Like mentioned many times before me, Shapiro has made promises that were NOT kept, improvements that are hardly noticeable, and it's really a dump, simply put in terms of operations and infrastructure. It takes a lot of visits to really soak in all of that's wrong with the place and I can really see it now and it's painful to see. However, when people talk about how bad operations are and how many rides were closed when they visited in the months of September through March, I don't find those complaints valid in ANY way.

If the park is going to be open and they're going to charge you full price, they should have everything open. If they're going to have 15 rides closed for regular maintanence, they should give you a proportional discount.

I understand what he's saying. He went to the park. 15 rides were closed, 14 of which he knew nothing about ahead of time. He was disappointed and likely felt ripped off. Seems pretty simple to me.

SFMM isn't a complete year-round park but it's pretty damn close. That being the case, how do you explain my experience at the park when at least a dozen rides were closed in the middle of the summer? I might be willing to accept that in December but not in June.

15 out of, what?- 60 rides?- is a big deal. That's 25% of the park more or less "closed". I'm sure the admission price wasn't 25% off!

Kraxleridah...

15 rides not operating in a park I just paid good money to get into is unexceptible. I paid $15 to park, and Something like $40 to get into the park. That's $55.

If that many rides are expected to be non operational durring that time of year, then there should be a discount or some kind of warning before you buy your tickets. There was nothing telling me about all the rides that were going to be closed that day. Even if there was a sign that listed all 15 rides, that is still no excuse for that many rides not operating.

I also went to Knotts berry farm as well, and there was a total of only 2 rides down for maintnance. Knotts was in there winter mode as well.

I was at disneyland as well, and the only attractions that were down for maintnance were the monorail and mattahorn mountain. There were no attractions not operating at california adventure.

See what I am getting at?

I came all the way from Michigan to finaly hit magic mountain, so I cant just "turn aroun". It left a sour taste in my mouth. I actually called the park before my visit to get some info on the park for that time of year, and the lady on the phone said nothing about so many attractions being down.

Its real simple, I got ripped off and I am not happy about it.

Look at my track record and look at all the parks I have been to. I cant even place another park near magic mountain as far as rides being down for maitnance.

I can understand a few rides going down for maintnance, but there is NO excuse for that many being down at the same time. For it being the 'SLOW" time of year, they sure were busy. The lines for most of the coasters were at least a half hour-45 min long.

At least that makes me feel somewhat better about only 10 rides being closed when I went back in late summer of 2006. I can relate crazy horse.

The thing is, this isn't really an isolated incident, nor is it specific to SFMM. There are many other Six Flags parks that fail to come close to operating all of their rides, and when you're a seasonal park with a long off-season for ride rehabs, there are few excuses for 10-12 rides being down at any given time.

It doesn't matter what the rides are, either. Even if we're talking about a few old flats, a flume and a pair of crappy coasters, it doesn't send the right message to the guest. I'm still not quite sure of why some people find this acceptable, or at the very least something that the guest should merely deal with.

At least this conversation should be encouraging to people thinking about opening an amusement park with no amusement park experience. It doesn't matter how poorly your park operates, people like kraxleridah will still go to the place and defend it to the world!

Refering to corporate sponsorships...

You guys keep bashing them, but really, they are a good thing. The Papa John's partnership last year was awesome. From what I heard at Six Flags over Texas it increased revenue by 120%. (or a figure around those lines, either way, it was a huge increase)

Although it was slightly more expensive, I honestly didn't mind, because it did taste good. With a coupon from my season pass book, I was able to get a quarter of a pizza (that's how big the slice practically was), 3 small cheesy breadsticks, and a drink for like $7. It ain't no McDonald's Dollar Menu Meal, but for $7, with a coupon of course, for that much food that tasted good at a theme park was a pretty good deal.

I am sure with Cold Stone, Panda, and Johnny Rockets, we will see similar results.

Kodak also got into the game with Six Flags photos. That is a huge improvement, and I may actually take advantage of it. Rather than wasting time waiting in line for photos at the park, I can go home and view and order online.

Everyone keeps complaining about the past, but c'mon, its a new era. Things ARE changing little by little. You can't ignore things like Ninja getting new paint at SFMM or the rebranding of Marine World, new shows at SFGAm and SFoT. New family attractions at SFFT and SFSL, even after SFSL got a large expansion last year. The park is still recieving some great attention.

Efforts to reduce debt are being made and as sad as it is to see parks fade out of the chain. Parades and characters are in many of the parks. New festivals and events are showing up to draw people to visit.

Shapiro is trying. He's not doing bad. As I have said before, this may be a turning year.

Sure, Cedar Fair and Disney are suprior parks in many many ways, but you can't blaim Six Flags for trying to be more like them in certain aspects.

Less than 10 days before the 2007 season begins for SFoT, and I am more excited than ever. And yes, I am a huge Six Flags fan, and I have been to Cedar Fair, Busch, and Disney parks as well.

Oh brother! How many times can people state that many SF parks aren't run like SFOT.

Chuck

Maybe that's why SFoT is a model park along with SFGAm and SFFT.

(But yes, I know the ownership/partnership deal thing is there too.) *** Edited 3/2/2007 3:19:53 PM UTC by rct247***