B&M Expensive Arrow?
SFGAm's Shockwave: The turn into the brakes has been reprofiled *at least* once, and I'm pretty sure the number is higher than that. Not to mention that unfortunate incident a couple of years ago where a girl had to be rushed to the hospital after riding the POS!
SFMM (X): I can tell you for sure Six Flags wasn't happy with the delay, nor were they happy with the stress fractures in the trains and that other little incident when the train slammed into the gates. They might have a popular coaster now that it's finally open, but how about all the costs the park *lost* while it sat there idle? I wouldn't be surprised if Six Flags doesn't buy another 4-D.
PKI (Bat): PKI contracted Arrow for Adventure Express and Vortex simply because there were no other options! I'm sure Arrow's compensation helped somewhat but PKI was most definitely *not* happy. And since when is the Vortex one of the most popular and significant coasters in history??? Are you thinking of the Beast maybe??
SFStL (River King Mine Train): The ride had standup cars for a year or two before they had to be removed because of stress fractures caused by the trains. Arrow seemed to have forgotten that more weight in the trains would cause more force on the tracks.
Kennywood (SP): When you build a multi-million dollar coaster, you expect it to stick around for awhile so you can continue to rake in money off of it. And with Steel Phantom that just didn't happen. Not to mention the added trims ($$$) and I believe there was a reprofile in there, as well. Why do you think Kennywood went asked Morgan to try to fit the pieces together on PR rather than asking Arrow to redesign?
SFGAdv (GASM): Though you'll never hear it directly from the park, GASM has been a pain in the park's rear end for a while now. There's a significant (and costly) stress fracture problem that needs to be repaired on a yearly basis.
CP (Magnum): I'm not sure if the ride ever opened with them or not, but I can't imagine CP was happy with having to replace all the upstop plates that were originally installed with upstop wheels. And then there was the costly re-profile on the pretzal turnaround (heck, that was basically a replacement!).
Alton (Arrow Pipelines): You think John Wardley actually makes up stuff he puts on his site? Check out: http://john-wardley.demon.co.uk/sw5.html . Scroll most of the way down to where he writes, "Similarly, SW4 (Oblivion) was developed from my original Secret Weapon concept (SW1 & SW2) which I formulated for Nemesis's predecessor - an Arrow Pipeline coaster - which was aborted in favour of the B&M Inverter product." He picked a nice way to explain that Arrow couldn't deliver, but there's your proof.
As for parks that won't buy from Arrow again, I know for a fact that Busch won't. And as I said above, I wouldn't be surprised if Six Flags (or CP, for that matter) didn't buy anything else from the company.
-Nate
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Father Lucifer, you never looked so sane. You did always did prefer the drizzle to the rain
I prefer Vortex over a B and M standup anyday, in fact vortex is my favorite looper period including inverts. And how about the technology used to make these coaster in the 80's as well, not anywhere near what there was even in the early 90's. Arrows biggest mistake IMHO is that they design there rides not on the heartline but in the centerline of the train, and the transitions. But then again that technology wasn't there in the 80's either. As for the 4 d having problems, it is not anything like any other coaster ever made, look at all b and m's they are all just plain old regular track with plain old regular trains be it upside down, IE inverts and flying or right side up be it hypers, sitdowns, floorless, standup tell me where any new technology was involved in this? No wonder X had problems. Intensity wise the only cloaster that B and M has that I have ridden that even comes close to matching the intensity of a megalooper even a small one like demon is B:TR. And one the heck is the deal with throing the trims all over the things? Capacity my *ss magnum runs three trains and it just has one trim going into the pretzel. Raging bull is so chopped up with trims its unreal and I could fall asleep on the dang thing, come on now i could go on about B and M but ya know i have to quit sometime. IMHO Arrow can build anythign just as good as any B and M look no further then Tennessee Tornado and X to see this.
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?
MagnumForce said:
As if B and M hasn't had there problems as well?
Please name some of the problems B&M has had.
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- Peabody
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?
About Flashback...sure it's rough, but where's the big problem? It's never had an accident or had to be reprofiled or whatever...
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- Peabody
*** This post was edited by Peabody on 1/28/2002. ***
Mantis had an "after market" trim installed
This season there was an 'issue' with one of the rails on Raptor
Then Nate ruined his whole arguement by saying" Why do you think Kennywood went asked Morgan to try to fit the pieces together on PR rather than asking Arrow to redesign? "
Hmm.. could it be that the man that engineered the damn thing in the first place now works for Morgan (Steve O.)?
Moreover, it's possible that the WoF standout "ExtremeRoller" was removed due to stress cracks. Maybe, I dont know. But Rail Blazer never operated again after the woman fell out of it. The death of that ride was concurrent with her death.
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"Nobody writes about the planes that land." Steve Salerno Washington Times 7-10-01
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Have you ever considered that it may not be the park that's the problem, but YOU???
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Knott's Berry Farm Cuba ~South Park
People asked why parks buy from B&M when Arrow is available. My explanation was that B&M is a proven company. Was I Arrow bashing? No - I was pointing out facts to support the argument that parks buy from companies that have proven themselves. Argue all you want about what you think Arrow coasters could be like or why Arrow coasters are more fun, but that's not what's being debated here. Since you're not a park exec, your opinion doesn't really matter.
As for chains snapping, Jeremy, that's *hardly* as large of a problem as having to reprofile. Same for the after-market trim (which was a request by CP, not a necessary installment). :-)
What's this issue with Raptor's rails?
How did I ruin my argument against Steel Phantom? Though Okomoto worked for Arrow at the time, I haven't seen anything that says he was the sole designer. I've usually seen it credited to Toomer. However, I still think it's more likely Kennywood went to Morgan because they'd had several previous successes (no failures).
I'm *positive* that Extremeroller was removed because of stress fractures. Maybe that wasn't the same with SStL's ride, but it had its own problems too!
Finally, coasterjedi comments that all Arrow's coasters since Drachen ire have been pretty good. I'd ask Blackpool about that and see what they have to say. ;-)
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 1/29/2002. ***
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?
Arrow simply did not have an appealing product available, most large chains already have multi-loopers, mine trains, suspended coasters and hypercoasters. What else did Arrow have to offer until the 4D/Arrowbatic? You tell me?
The company themselves admit they slacked off most of the 90's, and didn't have the *product* available to compete with B&M and Intamin. Without the product, how in the heck can you tell me what a park would or wouldn't buy?
Didn't take long after the 4D became available for a park to buy one now did it?
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Have you ever considered that it may not be the park that's the problem, but YOU???
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 1/29/2002. ***
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 1/29/2002. ***
MagnumForce said:
B and M made the trains for flashback which is the main problem with it, and the trim on mantis don't even get me started,
Nowhere have I seen it stated what, exactly, B&M's involvement with Flashback was (if there was any at all!). There's *no* proof that B&M made the trains, as Intamin was making 4-across trains at the time as well. And heck, even if B&M did make the trains how do you figure they're the main problem of the ride? It's never ran anything different to test your theory.
As for Mantis, complain to Cedar Point about it - it wasn't B&M's doing (and is why I prefer Chang).
Show me one assumption or opinion I've made. I jumped to a *conclusion* with the facts I have (parks aren't satisfied with former Arrow products and would rather buy from a proven company). Nowhere have I said "Parks don't buy from Arrow because I think they're crappy rides."
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 1/29/2002. ***
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Have you ever considered that it may not be the park that's the problem, but YOU???
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Off-season coaster blues got you down, stop by the 'buzz and turn your frown upside-down...
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
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The legend lives!
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Intamin Train = 2 across, 2 rows, 8 cars.
Do the math.
*** This post was edited by Nate on 1/29/2002. ***
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