A Thought Why Ad Revenues are Down

What?!

I am currently browsing CB with Apple's Safari and when I click on the "Safari" pull-down menu I believe I do see a option listed as "Block Pop-Up Windows." And I certainly do have the ability to place a check next to that option or remove a check if one is there. No where in all of this do I loose the option to see pop-ups if I so desire.

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James Draeger
-doesn't matter anyway...being a club member and all

Well, draegs, I was going by what i was told by 2 mac users, so I could very well be worng (same thing in regards to MSN). I guess that a quarter of my post is wrong then... sorry.

Jeff - Are you going to be running the EyeBlaster campaigns that will soon be available from Burst?

-Jeff

http://americacoasters.com

Yeah, I think I am. It's not a huge run for the fothcoming Travelocity campaign, and it runs on weekends anyway when traffic is down. I desperately need it, so you bet!

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

I do have a pop up blocker, it's built into Norton. I was part of the club but couldn't afford it anymore. I'm in college and have three jobs. Most of the money I earn just goes straight to the school and the rest, sadly, I'm saving up to get my hair cut and to just go out with my friends one night to a "real" dinner at a steak-house.

In reply to the "Hey can I borrow $20 dollars, dad?" remark, try asking your dad "Hey can I borrow $20 and charge it to your Visa?" I do have a Visa but it is a debit card and I rarely use it. I'm not ready to get an actual credit card because I know what would probably happen if I did. But, I plan on getting one soon so I can start establishing a good credit history.

Plus, comparing spending $20 to support a website compared to something we do everyday is a little different. I agree with you in some points, but what are you getting in return besides an ad-free site and some discounted coaster events? Personally, the only benefit I got was supporting the site, no ads and getting a card. I never really used it.

Look at what you spend $20...yeah, right. CoasterDad compared it to parents (or yourself) buying a computer and saying if you had that much money, you should be able to buy a membership. Is the computer more necessary than a membership to a website? I'd say yes. "$20/month...at McDonald's," alright, you don't need to spend $20/month on McDonalds but what if you didn't have a lunch with you, or you didn't feel like cooking?

$800/year for movies, I can't see it as that much. I don't know people who see at least two movies a week to spend that much. But still, when you see a movie, you are getting somethin worth while. Not saying CB is useless...but some of the posts on here are quite repetitive and usually turn into some bickering. Although, it is quite entertaining to read people complaining to the moderators because their thread was closed.

Coasterdad, just wanted to say your post kinda reminded of my roommate calling the people who run the Sims Online to cancel his membership before his trail-period ended. They kept saying stuff like "Oh, $10/month is too much. Don't you go out to eat, or see a movie?" Kinda funny. (But that was different because I'm sure they have more than enough members to cover their entire cost of running the site with no problem.)

I know how Jeff feels by having to use his own money to support his site because I have the same thing happen when I renew my hosting every year. The site doesn't make enough to cover all the hosting but does come close. But, to me, now, it isn't worth the $20 when I could just block the ads for free.

My point: I'll keep my ad-blocker and single-choice design and "regular" priced park fees. I don't consider myself stealing anything because Jeff is providing a service (forum) free of charge. If he was charging to use the site and I got around the password system, then I'll consider myself a theif.

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"If two coaster trains almost hit each other, why is it called a near miss and not a near hit?"

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"If two coaster trains almost hit each other, why is it called a near miss and not a near hit?"

I'm not providing anything for free. And yes, you're stealing from me. You're using the site and I'm not being compensated for it. It's that simple. If you weren't stealing or didn't feel guilty about it you wouldn't have posted a half-dozen paragraphs when nobody asked for you sob story.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Jeff, to me you are providing a service for free. If you are not being compensated for it then it is your own fault for not charing to use the site. Your ads are an extra revenue that is not the service you are providing.

With the statement you concluded with, I will assume that anything with length in it must automatically make a person guilty of whatever they are explaning. I will keep that in mind next time I hear the President give a State of the Union; he must be guilty of screwing up the nation if he is trying to give us an hour speech on how to improve it.

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"If two coaster trains almost hit each other, why is it called a near miss and not a near hit?"

Jeff, I will go back to my TV refernce(which surprisingly you had nothing to say about). TV is transmitted in a lot of places by the air, and by cable. If you have cable, then you are paying for the cost of the service (wich is like an internet service provider). With cable TV, you are mainly paying the cable company, with a small amount of your fee going to certian sations (such as pay sites on the internet). This small fee isnt enought to cover operating costs. Thus they turn to commercials to cover the cost (such as pop-up adds on the internet), or prodect placements (banner adds). Keep in mind the with cable (ISP) you can watch whatever show (site) that you can access.

Now you are saying people are stealing from you, but I'm shure that you are doing the same thing to the TV sations, as no one watches all of the commercials before, after and durring a show. Those with ad-blokers arn't stealing from you anymore than what you are doing to TV sations. Also, if you want to keep people from *stealing* from you, make this a 100% pay site. As of right now, you are basicaly broadcasting over public airwaves where anyone with the connections can view and just like those sations, people arn't forced to view your adds.

You can't compare tv ads to the ads on a website for one fundamental reason. TV ads are sold ahead of time. The cost is based on the estimated viewership of the show itself, not the viewership of the commercials. When a website is paid for its ads the money comes after the run of the campaign. Every bit of money generated is based on that specific number.

How is basing payment on future estimates of the viewing of the show and the afterwards payment for the direct accessing of ads from the site the same thing?

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James Draeger
-Captain Sarcasm (aka Sour Boy)

Its the same because if people don't view the add, then they don't work. I'm shure that if everyone was buying stuff from the pop-up, then the amount paid per view would go up. the same thing applies with TV ads, as in if a show is more than liikely to have 1 million viewers, then it will get less money than 5 million views. Also if no one views the TV ads, then no product will be sold, thus they wont pay for ad time in the feature and the TV sations will lose money. They both work the same way, but its a matter of when they will start to pay more or less. Also if you want to save money, ditch your server and T1 and get a host for your site. It will be much cheaper per month, and you might even come out ahead.

With the amount of traffic this site receives, I highly doubt administering the site through a host would be cheaper. Plus the fact that hosting through someone else leaves you at their mercy when something goes wrong.

I stand by my statement about the $20. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. No one is putting a gun to your head. However, using the TV analogy, the only TV you get without commercials you must pay for.

If you don't pay for HBO, you are stealing.

Edited for bad spelling.

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"She said to me oh I love it when you're mean,
don't you know it's boring when it's quiet and serene.
I said to her no way baby, life ain't what it seems,
Well don't you know baby that life is a scream!" - Gordon Gano
*** This post was edited by CoasterDad64 2/28/2003 7:28:01 PM ***

Didn't HBO recently crackdown on bars in New York that were showing the Sopranos to their customers?

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Please visit the small parks. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes
Woodencoaster.com

Most licenses for pay cable channels are on a household level. If you are having a Sopranos party (personally I prefer Six Feet Under) at a bar with HBO, HBO is right to expect a larger license fee. Having no commericals can work against you as well. The Sopranos is the highest rated pay cable television show. HBO makes its money from licensing fees, not ad revenue. Ad prices are set based on ratings, HBO can't charge you more for watching the Sopranos, and less for 10 year old Real Sex episodes. It doesn't work that way.

To return to topic, sort of, Pop-up blockers are good for sites that run rampant pop-ups, those sites ask for it. CBuzz's ads are pretty unobtrusive. I didn't join the club to avoid the ads, I did so to help provide for something I enjoy.

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"... don't you know baby that life is a scream!" - Gordon Gano

Mark: You can't seem to see past your own nose, that's the first problem.

Second, this isn't TV, it's the Internet. I used to work in cable, and you're entirely wrong about the way it works. Cable is a cash cow. Furthermore, people can't block TV spots unless they can jump forward in time.

So you can say it's my "fault" for putting it out there for free, and you can make the same claim about every other site out there you like. But because you're too selfish to see past your own nose and think you're entitled to whatever you see on the Net, those things will eventually go away until nothing is free but crappy GeoCities pages published by third graders.

We'll see how clever you are then.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Jeff, you don't seem to understand the aspects of advertising, regardless of where its at. When they are on TV you can get a drink, go to the bathroom, complain about people stealing from you, change channels or what ever else that you want to do.When on billboards, you can look the other way, or just not look at them. I can't think of any advertisement that you are forced to look at. Ad-blockers are just one way not to look at an ad.As to cable, they might be a cash cow, but they need the commercials to survive.

In regards to operating costs (I have no idea of how much traffic that the site gets, so please don't flame me over this part of my post, as I am only trying to help out), I found a host (with just a little searching) that allows 150 gigs of bandwidth, mySQL, and somewhere around 100 gigs file space for 50 bucks a month.

And yes, under your standards, I am selfish and I do belive that I am entitled to whatever I see on the net. I pay for what I belive is worth it (one being a coasters site), or that I have to. I think that you have a very nice site, and the only thing that was keeping me from joining your club(I was very close to doing so a few months back) is the moderating. Now I know that you will say here shortly that this is your site and you can run it how you like, which is fine by me. But getting treated like crap and have several of my threads deleted, only to be re-posted by another member later and having that thread stay open, prevented me from supporting your site. If you want people to support your site, you need to have comparable costumer service to your home park.
*** This post was edited by Mark B. 2/28/2003 11:02:34 PM ***

Hahahahahaha. I don't understand advertising? I've worked for newspapers, magazines, radio, TV and the Internet. I've been a media professional for about 12 years. What's on your resume?

This site passes 200 gigs on a slow month. In the summer it's more than twice that. Furthermore, I own and operate all of the software. I do this for a living, it's not some hobby site running on mySQL (which is a toy).

I don't want the support of anyone who doesn't like the way we run the site. Why would I want that? At the same time, I certainly don't want them hanging around wasting my bandwidth to complain about it. I'd rather they just went away. Say what you will, but I'm up front and honest about what I think and the way I want to run things here, and despite that (or more than likely, because of it), people still join and enjoy the company of this community.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Hey Mark are you a dumb ass or just playing one on this site?

Comparing TV commericals to Pop Up ads is not even apple to oranges...it is way beyond that.

Has anyone ever heard .."There is NO such thing as a FREE Lunch?" and do you understand the concept? That is what this site and many more like it on the internet are all about.

This site is an opportunity for us to discuss and enjoy conversation about roller coasters. We aren't solving the problems of world peace or anything else on this site. Also, we SHOULDN'T expect anyone too go broke "supporting our habit"...This is where the discuss of AD REVENUE begins.

AD REVENUE is DOWN not only on this site but across the internet because of LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE VALUE, let me repeat that...LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE VALUE of the audience delivered by a website. What I mean is, companies and individuals with websites, under estimated the value of thier audience and GAVE away the "ad space" for a very low level early on (if not FREE) and are now realizing they can't charge for something they have been giving away.

Look at it this way, MOST COMPANIES did not nor do they still understand the VALUE of their ONLINE audience. Most brick and mortar companies continue to look at a website as a COST of doing business not as the revenue stream it can and SHOULD be. Because corporations have DEVALUED the internet advertising by "giving it away" or packaging it with tradional advertising methods (ie print advertising), sites like CBuzz which are ONLINE dependent will continue to struggle.

The BEST thing you can do is be a SUPPORTER of CBUZZ by joining the Club, regardless if you can attend an event or not, $20 PER YEAR for what this site offers the true coasterfan is CHEAP.

Allright, this is going to be my last statment over this topic. When I said that you don't understand advertising, I was going by that you don't seem to accept the fact that regardless of the source, people don't have to view it.

Another thing (as I thought that I had made it clear that I didn't know much about the topic, which is my fault), I was just trying to help out. I also understand that doing work on the web is how you make a living, but I thought that you don't do any more hosting (which would have to deal with the server).

As for this site, it is a good site that would be good if there was consitant moderating. I have no proublem with "harsh" moderating (as a matter of fact, I like harsh moderating and was one of the resons why I nearly joined this site), as long as it applies to everyone. On another side note, up untill today, what other decent coaster related site was open and is free of charge?
*** This post was edited by Mark B. 2/28/2003 11:50:36 PM ***

And now Mark will go to sleep and dream of the day people give a rat's hoohah about his teeny little ideas or his even less significant 'CoasterEmpire' site.

Actually, I hope he doesn't dream of getting any real traffic; that just might require a coma...

-CO

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.