2013 Cedar Fair Season pass question

This

Bucks in particular seems upset that people here are Walmart bashing. It almost comes across like you're taking it personally. I think the reason people have piled on Walmart in this thread is because its the biggest and often one of the least 'enjoyable' (for those of us that do like to shop and/or want to have an enjoyable experience, which, as has been stated, is not everyone in this thread's goal) places to go for various reasons. And as I've said, even though on the consumer end, the experience/atmosphere of going somewhere like Target is (IMO) better, on the employee end of things, there are only minor differences in the poor treatment.

And honestly, Kmart is worse than Walmart IMO.

As far as the debate about what dj just said an 8.3's response, I think that's a whole nother discussion, but, and this is coming from someone who's been there, as well as someone who (to put my next comment into perspective) thinks that you shouldn't have to go to College just to get a decent job, sometimes you have to start out at a low paying/menial job. But the people that stay there I tend to feel less and less sorry for.

Call me jaded, but that comes from 7 years working with them to try to encourage them to better themselves. Every case isn't the same, true, and some people can't help their lot in life. But I'm a college dropout with no degree who worked my way up with experience and hard work, and now I'm a Marketing Director. I started in Retail.

I am not taking any of it personally. I don't really care where people shop. My point is just that I think its interesting to see people complain about Walmart when most of the same complaints can be levied at other businesses as well (many of which people patronize to get away from Walmart). If you don't find that interesting, so be it. Just like I don't shop for the "shopping experience." YMMV. LOL

Yes, Costco is fairly well known for being at least a little more reasonable in terms of how it treats its employees. This is an older article, but fairly comprehensive:

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Costco-s-love-of-labor-Em...140722.php

This is one of the reasons that we used to drive a little farther to shop at Costco rather than the local Sam's Club back in the buying-diapers-by-the-case days. We've since had a local store open up, which has been nice.

Some people like to focus on the "costs" of Walmart (while ignoring the same costs at other locations, as Tek has pointed out), without mentioning the benefits:

The average American family saves $2,300 a year by shopping at Wal-Mart. In fact, because of its relentless drive to lower costs, Wal-Mart may be America’s single greatest anti-poverty program. In terms of groceries alone, a study by MIT economist Jerry Hausman found that Wal-Mart’s low prices increase poor families’ effective household income by 6.5 percent. Other studies have found that when a Wal-Mart opens, its mere presence drives down prices in an area by 10-15 percent. Wal-Mart saves U.S. consumers more than $200 billion a year; compare that to the federal government’s $33 billion food-stamp program.

http://www.the-dissident.com/Walmart.shtml

So they create an endless loop, by paying low wages and, in turn, forcing their employees to shop from them to try to stretch those dollars as far as they can.

I'm purely in the "costs outweigh the benefits" camp.

1) You are aware that no one is "forced" to shop there?

2) Far more people shop there than just the "poor folks who work for them."

Here's another view on "bix box retail", and a prediction of its demise. I'm not completely sold that we're completely there....yet. But definitely an interesting take on the cultural significance of the phenomenon....

http://www.alternet.org/economy/after-ruining-america-era-giant-chain-stores-over?page=0%2C0&paging=off

In a now permanently contracting economy the big box model fails spectacularly.

This is what you're looking forward to, just to get rid of those "evil" big box stores?

djDaemon said:

bunky666 said:

I don't think the amusement parks force their employees to work at midnight on Thanksgiving and then threaten to sue said employees if they strike.

Welcome to America, where we've had national unemployment flirting with double digits for several years, and people are threatening to strike because their hours aren't convenient.

Boo-friggin-hoo.

Oh, I'm not saying that I agree with them striking because of having to work on a holiday. You work a job with certain hours and those hours include the holiday? Well, then you gotta work the holiday. I'm a nurse and can't even remember the last year I didn't have to work most of the holidays. But I didn't think a company could sue employees for striking. And for businesses in general, at least for Thanksgiving, why is it necessary to open at midnight for Black Friday? I know it is all about the money, and the stores that opened on Thanksgiving for Black Friday made huge profits, but it bothered me that all the stores did it and took people away from their families on one of the last hugely celebrated holidays left. Guess I'm just a traditionalist in that sense.

rollergator said:
Here's another view on "bix box retail", and a prediction of its demise. I'm not completely sold that we're completely there....yet. But definitely an interesting take on the cultural significance of the phenomenon....

http://www.alternet.org/economy/after-ruining-america-era-giant-chain-stores-over?page=0%2C0&paging=off

Gator, have you read The Long Emergency from Kunstler? It will scare the crap out of you (or at least it did for me).

djDaemon said:

Welcome to America, where we've had national unemployment flirting with double digits for several years, and people are threatening to strike because their hours aren't convenient.

Boo-friggin-hoo.

Yes, but we've also had less an less earning power for the lower class decade after decade after decade coupled with insane increase in earning power for the tippy-top. What's the point of minimum wage if it doesn't provide a minimum living?

There is no point to minimum wage. It needs to be axed.

Lankster said:

1) You are aware that no one is "forced" to shop there?

Well, that's in stark contrast to your "benefits" post where you talked about how Wal-Mart's pricing stretches poor families incomes.

If you're poor enough that you have to shop at Wal-Mart to stretch your income (and we're working on the idea that Wal-Mart's own employees are), then your options are awfully limited.

Forced? No. Kind of stuck? Sure.

Fine line between having to do something and not really having a second viable option.

2) Far more people shop there than just the "poor folks who work for them."

So what? Your post was about the benefits of Wal-Mart. How they lower pricing and enable the poor to stretch their dollars. We're talking about the poor folks. At least you were.

And I don't buy for a second that it's only Wal-Mart that offers that benefit. As I've said many, many times in this thread I think other big box stores offer the same pricing in the big picture. I even provided a link to an actual Bloomberg report showing Target is sometimes cheaper.

Wal-Mart offers nothing more than the other big box retailers. I do think they offer less with their low quailty **** at low prices (and really, is giving the poor absolute crap really helping?), their nasty-ass stores and their total dirtbag, low rent, lowest common denominator clientele that are people that (at least in my neck of the woods) you literally don't see anywhere else outside of Wal-Mart property.

I don't think Wal-Mart is evil. I think their stores, their products and the shopping experience they provide pretty much blows. If you work or shop there, you're getting what you deserve. If you're naive enough to believe what your getting is good value, then more power to you.

Lord Gonchar said:

...their total dirtbag, low rent, lowest common denominator clientele that are people that (at least in my neck of the woods) you literally don't see anywhere else outside of Wal-Mart property.

This is what puzzles me about WalMart. You see the same people in every store, no matter what city. Conversely, you don't see these people in any other store. I have no idea where the WalMart shoppers around me come from, because I NEVER see these people anywhere else.

^^ So it's not just me that is often amazed, amused, and/or appalled by the people I see at WalMart on a regular basis? Whew!

You don't think that the newly-wedded girl who made your cheeseburger at Burger King the other day isn't getting SNAP benefits and WIC to feed her baby? Or what about the young woman busting her butt waiting tables at the Steak 'n Shake? Do you think that your not paying for her groceries each week? The list goes on and on. The geek at Radio Shack? The lovely hispanic ladies who clean your room at your favorite hotel? The punk college kid operating the roller coaster at your home park?

True story... The 92-year-old man who cleans the restrooms at my local Walmart store is a millionaire. He sold his bicycle shop a few years ago. I love that guy.

More true stories... My local Walmart just raised enough food to supply the Huntington Food Bank in Huntington, WV for an entire year, and they do that every Holiday season. I make sure to help out every time I go through the checkout there by donating some food. They also send employees to help organize the food into bags to pass out a few times a month.

They also have awesome events throughout the year to persuade customers to adopt pets from a local "no kill" shelter. Customers can pet the animals and then possibly pick one to go home with them.

They also give gift cards and money to local churches and clubs on a daily basis.

I wonder if McDonald's or K-Mart or even Macy's does things to help the community as much as Walmart does. Walmart always gets a bad wrap, and I don't think it is necessarily fair to them.

My local Walmart store is clean, has friendly employees for the most part, and the customers there dress and act just like normal people (no PJ bottom wearing in public here.) It does get pretty busy at times, but that might have something to do with being next to the largest mall in WV. Everywhere you shop is going to have good and bad.

While I don't doubt there's the occasional Walmart location that attracts a halfway decent clientele, I have yet to see one. peopleofwalmart.com tells me my experience is pretty common. :)

Shopping in general (and grocery/necessity shopping in particular) is a pretty miserable experience. Walmart just excels at making it more miserable than anyone else, in the name of (supposed) savings.

I love that stores like Costco have figured out how to make money while making happy customers and not turning their employees into a drain on society. I was surprised to learn that Costco is a publicly traded company, as I generally blame the rush to the bottom largely on Wall Street greed. Turns out I might not be so far off base.

Interesting thread.

I'm the type of shopper that wants nothing more than to get in and out as quickly as possible, which usually means going to the closest store to where I am at that point in time that sells what I want (with the exception of grocery shopping, where I do have store loyalty).

I don't typically notice what's going on around me when I'm shopping. Costco has been referenced in this thread a few times and I don't think I've ever actually been in one. Can someone take a minute to describe what they do to separate their shopping experience from that of other chains? I really have no idea what people who care are looking for.

Costco deals in bulk and is essentially a warehouse. You buy a membership to shop there. Their stores are clean but not modern or interesting at all. They have friendly staff who seem happy to be at work and they don't have uniforms, only an apron. They are efficient. They close at 6 pm on Saturdays.

Costco has been brought up a lot but Trader Joe's and Aldi also pay their employees very well and manage to be very successful.

Lankster said:
This is what you're looking forward to, just to get rid of those "evil" big box stores?

Not exactly sure where the word 'evil' came from - more to the point, these types of stores create an economic "race to the bottom," a vicious cycle of lower costs and lower wages that ends....well, pretty much here where we are.