2013 Cedar Fair Season pass question

Because some things are just irrational. Like I said, I know the other stores aren't any better, but I hate Wal-Mart, and I'm usually a very rational, open-minded person that can say I'm wrong when someone raises an argument counter to my arguments. Some places and things just irk people, and Wal-Mart is one of them.

Lankster said:
I can't find a coherent argument from you.

Because you keep either twisting or interpreting my words in ways that don't make sense then spitting them back at me.

1. The 'strecthing of the dollar' that Wal-Mart offers people isn't really a benefit because it's often their practice of paying such a low wage that facilitates the need to stretch a dollar at the expense of value.

2. It's also not a benefit in the sense that similar prices are available across the board at big box stores.

Two separate thoughts that you keep trying to lump together as contradictory. It's really not that hard. I don't believe the benefits Wal-Mart offers (saving a few bucks) are more valuable that the costs (poor quality items, low wages, lowering the bar across the board).

Twist it however you want. At this point twisting other's replies is the only argument you seem to offer.

Where do you shop? 

Depends. What are we buying?

But I can't believe you claim I distorted this:

"If you work or shop there, you're getting what you deserve. If you're naive enough to believe what your getting is good value, then more power to you."

Those are your words, sorry for taking them literally!

Heh. If you think what I said (the quote above) and what you said:

"So there are no good values to be found at Walmart, and everyone who shops there is naive? Pretty broad brush there!"

are the same thing, then that explains a lot about this conversation.

If you work or shop there, you're getting what you deserve. If you're naive enough to believe what your getting is good value, then more power to you."

and

So there are no good values to be found at Walmart, and everyone who shops there is naive?

Your claim is the top, is true, while the bottom isn't? Frankly I can't believe you'd back the top at all!

Ok. So you agree there are good values to be found at Walmart, and/or not everyone who shops there is naive?

So when you say "you get what you deserve" when you shop there you mean you get a good value?

Or do you mean there are no good values there, but not everyone who shops there is naive as to not understand that? So there are people who understand (not naive) they are getting a bad value--guess they're just buying there for, well, I can't think of a good reason!

Stop digging, man.

Just make it stop. Please. My head is spinning and I just want to get off the ride.

Lankster said:
Stop digging, man.

Physician, heal thyself.

*Not too often you get a biblical quote from yours truly... ;)

I just think its funny to see people who dislike/hate Walmart for reasons that apply to other businesses as well

The people here, myself included, have all agreed, stated, conceded, whatever that Walmart has low prices, that Walmart pays low wages. The people here, myself included, have all agreed, stated, conceded, whatever that other big box retails has low prices, that other big box retail pays low wages.

The difference comes in at a place that you've stated yourself that you 'don't get', and that's the atmosphere. The comfort level. The pleasantness of the experience. Because you (having admited so yourself) don't 'get' the shopping 'experience'. If you don't already get it then there is nothing anyone here can really do other than to say how we personally feel, and I think that all comes down to personal preference. If you go in and have no issues, then fine. I was in Walmart last week. I don't think I'm naive, but totally get (and agree with) what Gonch is saying.

they aren't any worse than Target of K-Mart or most other retail stores as far as wages go.

As has been noted. Again, it comes down to 2 things:

1) Some people don't like shopping at Walmart
2) It's a fact that Big Box retail has aided in lowering wages & quality of items. Walmart just happens to be the #1 'offender' becasue they're the biggest (If Target had the bargaining power Walmart does, they'd be doing the same thing).

They help the community in many ways

While it's true that Walmart (and most other retail stores) do contribute to the communities, the facts show that overall, the small amount of money they may donate is nothing compared to the waste they create.

Read up on Walmart and Levi Strauss. First hand account:

I remember during both of my orientations at Walmart (There was a couple months break between me transferring to another store, so I had to be 'rehired' and go thru orientation a 2nd time), they talked about Levi who, at the time, was not in Walmart stores. The reason, they said, was some convoluted story about how the great Sam Walton went to Levi and wanted to sell their products, but the evil execs at Levi wouldn't offer a fair price, thus Sam Walton declared that Levi would NEVER be sold in his stores because Levi Strauss Co. was far too greedy and mistreated the american people. I wish I were exaggerating the emotions behind the story, I sat thru it twice.

If you do your research, though, you'll see that the real issue is that once Levi Strauss did finally start selling at Walmart back in the mid-2000s, they had to actually cheapen their quality in order to sell at the prices Walmart expected. The only reason Levi is even in Walmart is because the brand was having issues as it was. Their lifeline thusfar came from making an inferior product to sell at Walmart.

Walmart refused to sell Levi for 20+ years. They only do so now because Levi relented and came up with a whole new 'signature series' sub brand to sell. That's kinda dirty to me.

djDaemon said:

While I agree that's a massive problem with huge repercussions for our economy, it's also a wholly different argument, as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of income disparity, it's sort of hard to take the "minimum wage should be higher" argument from the "it's inconvenient for me to work on a holiday" people.

I realize it's not necessarily accurate to assume the two groups overlap, but it often seems as though they do.

Yeah. It is a pretty different problem, but in some super generalized way, they both fall under the umbrella of "big corporations taking advantage of employees and customers" instead of "big corporations working for the mutual benefit of everyone involved." And as a member of the clergy, yes, I think this is wrong. As an American citizen, I recognize I might as well be wishing for a unicorn.

tek -- At this point it seems to me you are doing the same thing that you accused people who like Walmart of doing (only from the other side).

And I never said that everything that people dislike/hate about Walmart is true at every other business.

*sigh*

1. The 'strecthing of the dollar' that Wal-Mart offers people isn't really a benefit because it's often their practice of paying such a low wage that facilitates the need to stretch a dollar at the expense of value.

I don't work for Walmart--it's a benefit to me. Most people don't work at Walmart--it's a benefit to them.

2. It's also not a benefit in the sense that similar prices are available across the board at big box stores.

And once again, the authors actually looked at prices before and after a Walmart came to town. Their study claimed other prices went down as well, due to the Walmart opening.
Your issue is not with me--I didn't do the study. You think the study is wrong--great.

I don't believe the benefits Wal-Mart offers (saving a few bucks) are more valuable that the costs

You've made that perfectly clear. The study puts your "saving a few bucks" at over $200 billion a year. What are the costs?

At this point twisting other's replies is the only argument you seem to offer.

Really? So you saying I said Walmart workers were "forced" to shop at Walmart was me twisting your words?

I'm going to be the bigger man and let it go. I'm clearly under your skin and that's not the intention. As far as our discussion is concerned we've both said our pieces. You continue to take me out of context, twist and re-interpret words to suit the idea that my argument makes no sense rather than furthering the discussion.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

eightdotthree said:

Costco has been brought up a lot but Trader Joe's and Aldi also pay their employees very well and manage to be very successful.

Thank you for the reply.

Brian Noble said:

^^Trader Joe/Aldi are owned by the same (German) company. They have similar philosophies---primarily a smaller product line. For example, there aren't four brands of peanut butter, each in three different sizes. There is one. TJ's positions itself a little more upscale/foodie, whereas Aldi is more staples/basics. Both also try to position hard on price---and tend to squeeze their suppliers in much the same way as some of the bigger players. I've not shopped in an Aldi yet, but TJ's also has primarily a house brand, the products for which are often made by recognizable names but without the recognizable brand.

Aldi is the store I was referencing when I mentioned I try to remain loyal to one grocery. I compare Aldi to Seinfeld's Soup Nazi. You shop their way and it works. You want peanut butter? You get that one type of peanut butter. Paper or plastic? No bag for you. And put the cart back where you found it. :)

Lord Gonchar said:Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I'm +1-ing this for sure. Nice job!

The Billy Madison quote is always a win.

Whatever, Gonch.

I appreciate how you were the "bigger man" with your last comments!

(No, you're not under my skin. Take care.)

I just think its funny to see people who dislike/hate Walmart for reasons that apply to other businesses as well

GoBucks89 said:And I never said that everything that people dislike/hate about Walmart is true at every other business.

No, and I quoted what you said as is shown above.

Lankster, dude, really. For someone who isn't letting it under their skin, you sure have gone a long way to try and prove your point.

Tek--Seems like you are late in this thread as well?

Tekwardo said:

I just think its funny to see people who dislike/hate Walmart for reasons that apply to other businesses as well

GoBucks89 said:And I never said that everything that people dislike/hate about Walmart is true at every other business.

No, and I quoted what you said as is shown above.

My second statement above was based not on my first statement above but what you said after quoting it.

Lankster, dude, really. For someone who isn't letting it under their skin, you sure have gone a long way to try and prove your point.

Said the kettle to the pot. :)

This conversation reminds me of the conversations that we have about me refusing to patronize a Six Flags brand park. lol I do not like their parks because every time I have gone, they have offered me a bad experience. They pay their employees low wages (much like every other theme park.) They cheapen the experiences at other theme parks by indulging the higher paying customer's expectation to allow them to cut in line. Their parks were messy and employees were rude when I used to go.

Just an observation. No need to chime in to defend the chain.

Edited for clarification.

I'm not proving a point. Arguing ones opinion is not the same as trying to ague a fact, skillet.