Arizona or Las vegas

Soggy, isn't it about the same size as San Antonio? Perhaps larger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix,_Arizona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio%2C_TX

It isn't a dry heat anymore. With everybody that moves there wanting a grass lawn like they had back east, the amount of water used has risen dramatically. With that, the humidity (and smog) levels have also risen. I set a machine up in Encanto Park a number of years ago. It was October, and we started about 7:30 in the morning. By 9:00 it was already 80 degrees, and we were already soaked with persperation. Dry heat, yeah right!

janfrederick: Just because the people are there doesn't mean they are all going to beat down the gates of a park once it's built. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but is SFFT one of Six Flag's larger drawing parks in the US? I think its toward the bottom.

True true. I also have a feeling that new parks tend to struggle in the beginning while they try to establish a regular base of attendence...i.e. folks who traditionally go to Six Flags every summer.

Anyway, it seems odd that folks would want to build new parks in places like Wichita that already boast parks and not explore parkless regions. I wouldn't imagine the culture would be THAT much different.

You have to look at what makes up the population base. Are there enough families to support a sizable operation? The cost of real estate comes into play as well. The cost of land in the greater Phoenix area has steadily increased over the years. All the variables that determine if a park will be successful or not must pencil out. From my observations, it's not likely in the Valley of the Sun.

I don't think I know anyone in arizona that wouldnt appreciate a theme park. There is a demand for it here, in the phoenix metro area we are pushing 4 million people, the city is not getting any smaller, and if there was a park to be built here, it would not be like Six Flags. Too many out door lines. This park would have to have indoor qeues. That leaves many possibilities for great indoor theming. Everything out side would have to have misters. Alot of rides and shows that would soak you would probably be needed. Also I know many people that live in Arizona because they like the heat. And by snowbirds earlier, I meant that the old people that leave for the summer, come back and their families come for holidays in the winter, therefore they would probably go to a theme park. And in the summer tons of people visit arizona, and what better to visit, then a theme park when you go there? Plus there is ASU right in the valley, NAU and UofA only two hours away in each direction. What could be a better setup?

If it was, somebody would have done it already. I suspect that the bulk of the population base is retirees, not a very demographic for building amusement parks.

I doubt anyone but Six Flags would be interested in the area. Even then, with them selling off 9 parks rescently, I don't see them branching out into expanding markets for a while. Although the greater Phoenix area has a large population, once you are outside the suburbs, there is nothing for hours. Places like Disney or Universal would never even consider this because AZ is NOT a tourist destination, at least not the way Southern Cali or Florida is. Paramount probably wouldn't bite either, seeing as they are mostly East of the Mississippi. Cedar Fair hasn't built a park from the ground up with the exception of CP, and I doubt they want to try. Which leaves...???

I'm not saying that Phoenix Buzzers don't deserve a park, I just think it's a risky gamble from a business point of view. All those things you mention, Tigger (indoor parts, theming, misters) are all things that cost extra before a single dollar comes through the gate. It's all about ROI.

Cost extra on installation and are a maintenance nightmare, not to mention vandalism, etc., and the incredibly high water bill. Not to mention, if you built it close enough to the less-populated areas, I can't imagine the havoc blowing sand would do with ride mechanics ...

What if on the park, there were different things used to make the park more energy efficient. Different supplies of energy and water? Different technology that is not used everywhere, but just as reliable? It is possible right. Or would it just be better to give that hope up and hope for one in vegas? Do you really think that vegas is a better atmousphere then Phoenix, for a family theme park? If there was a way to do it, without the sand from the sahara ruining the rides, and the heat frying everyone of the 4 million people that live there,then would you want to see one?

I guess it all comes down to the fact that it's a bummer that C&C probably doesn't have the room to squeeze in a nice woodie. Then again, an Avalanche-scale coaster might fit. ;)

I don't think that c&c will ever change, one of the most popular coasters is called desert storm. c'mon they could at least change the name right?

What kind of attendance does C&C get?

The way you guys are talking, it seems like it'd be pretty low.

Which leads me to question, is it low because the park is crap or is the park crap because attendance is low?

In a nutshell, what is the overall situation with C&C. Maybe there's a reason it's not this great 'Atlantis' park?

There is Castles & Coasters, and Enchanted Island (which is primarily a kiddie park in Encanto Park). I've been to C&C, and like I said I've done some work at the other. While both do respectable business from my observations, neither have ever been bursting at the seams when I've been there. Like Soggy and a number of us have said, the reason there isn't a major park there is that it just doesn't pencil out.

I understand that, Dutchman - but there's one person in this thread who doesn't seem to.

Just offering an alternate approach for thought. :)

Understood, Gonch, I can't fault the frustration. I was writing my last post while the last three were posted. The fact that AZ lost a park in the last twenty years and was never replaced doesn't bode well.

The fact that the park that was lost had in its possession a dismantled wooden coaster from the Venice Pier and never was able to rebuild it makes it even more sad ;-(

Castles and Coasters is also very very small. It has been almost 3 years since I have been there but I seem to remember it taking up maybe an acre of space. After all, it is located in a mall parking lot, is it not?

What I really liked about C&C was the Castle arcade. They had some classics there, I remember that. (Who remembers the Arcade version of Super Mario Brothers?)

I think Castle & Coasters needs to move to a larger plot of land. There was rumors a while back to move to a much larger site in Avondale (10 acres I think). This would be large enough for an intense world class mid sized woodie, a Maure Soehne Xtended Power Tower and everything else in the current park. If they can get enough money for thier valuable land near the mall they may be able to afford to move to some much cheaper land in the suburbs. An L shaped out & back airtime woodie the size of Timber Terror with a 70+ degree drop and a really good drop tower is ALL I eally want really badly. Only thing C&C lacks are those two airtime machine but the lack of space make it a letdown. But a small park the size of Valleyfair, IB or Holiday World can do wonders for Phoenix. Just have some very awesome mid sized and mid priced rides like the two I've mentioned and I think people will come.

An L shaped out & back airtime woodie the size of Timber Terror with a 70+ degree drop and a really good drop tower is ALL I eally want really badly.

We know ;)