Zippin Pippin likely to cost half-million more than anticipated

And besides, I've quoted you directly, so this whole 'what people say or think I said' crap (especially since your argument has changed) is funny.

Again to clarify the straw man argument...there have been exactly two quotes of mine that have been quoted by Tek. I didn't want it left unchallenged that Tek has somehow quoted some great blunders of mine that I now denounce.

1. Public sector jobs now pay better and have better benefits than the private sector,

A simple statement of fact that I supported with the USA today article that says exactly the same. Not sure why/how anybody could or would take offense at me stating the obvious?

2. Icontend that one of the FIRST options for ALL government agenciesat ALLlevels is to thoroughly review salary and pension packages andTHENbring compensation in line with what it should be in a free market.

An opinion I stated and still believe.

How one would think that the above quotes would somehow lead one to the conclusion that Aamilj hates all government and all government employees...? It is a straw man defense. Rather than debate my opinions, it is much easier, and certainly lazier in my opinion to make an extreme generalization about what one thinks I believe.

Asking the taxpayer to be cynical about politician costs projections that so often fall short is a reasonable position Questioning the involvement of government in rollercoaster building is a reasonable position. Questioning the knee-jerk reaction of the political class to ask the taxpayer to pay more when the political class is already doing better than the private sector...is a perfectly reasonable position.

Now it is fine to disagree with these positions and state why one does. But to extrapulate these positions in to some straw man debate that Aamilj hates all public employees is laughable.

I could just as easily come on here and acuse Jeff and Tek of hating all taxpayers. I could assume that they have never met a tax increase they did not support. I could assume they support politicians lying about cost projections in order to get challenging votes passed. I could assume that they believe the ends justify the means if government gets their funding. There are all sorts of straw men generalizations I could make based upon what they have said, and mostly what they have not said. This is no different than what has transpired in my direction. But they clearly have not said (yet?) that they believe in such massive government involvement in our lives for ALL scenerios. So I instead focus on their opinions that differ from mine and present the counterargument and refrain from the effective, but otherwise lazy technique of painting thy opponent a kook via building a straw man.

P.S. On a day that we are finding out, almost 2 years later, the extent (Trillions) that our government went to spend the bailout money (read taxpayer money) on the EU, GE, Bank of Switzerland, etc...my opinion only grows stronger. Why weren't the reciepients of OUR money reported when Congress had to vote on this matter? Oh yes...they told us they HAD to do it when it was time to get the votes...only to now explain how much this cost us, and more infuriating...how much of our money went to non-American entities. McCain left his own Convention to vote for this collosal expenditure...right next to Obama. The taxpayer is left with the consequences, but we were not privy to the TRUTH before the vote was taken. We get the TRUTH 2 years later. What can we the taxpayer do now?

At least Green Bay will have a rollercoaster to show for their politicans' misrepresenting the true cost of their project...

At least Green Bay will have a rollercoaster to show for their politicans' misrepresenting the true cost of their project...

I love that you keep going back to that.

A) How many people on this site are coming to the defense of Green Bay building this? I'm not, because I don't care. In fact, I think it's silly, and I have no desire or intentions to ever go up there to ride a clone of Zippin Pippin. And there isn't some huge contingent of this site going bonkers over it. Though this is a coaster board, so even if people were going bonkers about it, why would you come to this type of site to discuss how this is a stupid idea when you never participate in any other discussions except the few times you pop into another thread to remind us that you're participating in a coaster thread?

B) I do hate all taxpayers (except myself). That's a certifiable fact.

C) Why are you still here arguing and yelling about politics at the top of your lungs on a coaster board? Do you even like coasters? Oh, right, you came here to bash a Muslim group first. Nice.

D) Go do what you always do, make a couple of 1 or 2 sentence posts in other threads so that it looks like you're 'legit' (or whatever it makes you feel) around here.

Have we lost sight of the fact that we are talking about the recontruction of a roller coaster that is based almost entirely on the fact that Elvis's fat ass once sat in it, and that he was apparently unaware of better coasters that existed outside of the great state of Tennessee?

In that light, the whole thing could be construed as a cost overrun.

If this thing actually works as advertised, does this make Memphis Planners idiots?

Why are you still here arguing and yelling about politics at the top of your lungs on a coaster board?

A quick look at views show that in the 1st two pages of this forum, only two topics have more looks. People may like this debate. At least more than some of the other topics. Why discourage that which is popular?

P.S. In an airport catching a red eye to Miami for a long weekend. Any coasters worth it down there? Is that Miami Hurricane worth leaving the beach or Everglades for? Going with a friend who would not like coasters, but I might be able to talk him into one ride...but not interested if it is nothing special.

Aamilj said:
...only two topics have more looks. People may like this debate. At least more than some of the other topics. Why discourage that which is popular?

People like to look at car wrecks, too. Just sayin'.

When a roller coaster project needs money, who do you go to?

Pepsi!

http://www.refresheverything.com/zippinpippin

Seriously.

--

Ummm, government spending money is bad or good or something too.

Government spending money when "times are tough" on things that stimulate the economy (and potentially enhance infrastructure, although that's not relevant in the ZP case) - isn't necessarily a Bad Thing (TM). Call me Keynesian if you must, but the idea that "all government spending is bad and wasteful" is fine in you tea party coffee klatches or whatever, but it's extremely short-sighted and dettrimental to the economy and to our Nation as a whole.

Roads, schools, playgrounds, clean air, clean water, national defense, etc., all call for someone OTHER than private enterprise to step in and ensure that "public consumables" aren't exhausted/destroyed by those who are driven purely by the profit motive.

Or Maverick.

I equate the Pippin to something along the lines of a government funded park. Should we get rid of all of those too? They weren't designed to be money makers so much as to give the people something to do.

From what I hear (never ridden it) the Dania Beach Hurricane is definitely worth a trip up from Miami.

I think there are very few people calling for absolutely no government spending whatsoever. They are probably equal to or lesser in number than those who think that the federal government should (and is able to) provide for every want and need of every person. I think it's just as short-sighted and detrimental to the economy and the nation as a whole to continue to spend and hand out things while passing along the payment to a future generation that the current Congress probably won't be alive to see.

Well, the extension of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% of earners....that's something I'd have to manage to do without. It's unbelievably expensive for the other 98%, as well as the future generations.

Well I suppose if you believe that taxing dividends as regular income will erase the entire deficit... I also suppose that anyone is welcome to reject the extension of their own Bush-era tax cut and pay at the previously higher rate.

ApolloAndy said:
From what I hear (never ridden it) the Dania Beach Hurricane is definitely worth a trip up from Miami.

Yeah, it's alright in my book. Nothing I'd make a super-dee-dooper special trip for anymore, but since we were in the area, we did it. Pretty fun ride.

Yeah, I'd agree...definitely worth a ride if you're in the Ft. Lauderdale area, but maybe worth a drive up from Miami if you have absolutely nothing else going on.

LOL Joe, I kinda have to believe that denying the "lower and middle-class tax cuts" because they're too expensive while extending tax cuts to the wealthiest two percent because they'll stimulate the economy is not only disingenuous but downright inhumane.

On top of that, there's the hundreds of years of objective data that prove that lower-income folks who get money (tax cuts, stimulus checks, however it's delivered) SPEND that money which stimulates the economy as a whole. Giving tax breaks, etc. to the wealthy just concentrates the wealth more, and it *tends* to stagnate. It's just NOT effective to give more money to those that HAVE money - in terms of growing the economy in lean times, that is. When the economy is booming, THAT is the time for tax breaks for the uber-wealthy...

But back to coasters, I do love me some DBH when it's running well.... :)

Then you must have heard something I didn't. The only two alternatives for extending the tax cuts I know about are 1) everyone. and 2) everyone except those making $200,000 a year. I know of nobody saying the tax cuts should be extended for ONLY those making more than $200,000 a year.

I also have to disagree with the idea that dividends and capital gains are income that benefit only the most wealthy. There are numerous people of moderate or even lower means who have invested money in the markets instead of spending every last nickel, and then some, at the mall or online shopping. Why should these people be penalized for acting responsibly as opposed to those who can't save a cent, then cry for breaks when they can't pay for every piece of junk they bought?

RatherGoodBear said:
Well I suppose if you believe that taxing dividends as regular income will erase the entire deficit...

A solution to a problem need not be the only solution. Every little bit helps, especially when that little bit isn't all that little.

From the numbers I have seen, the costs of extending the tax cuts on the above $200k/$250k folks is about $700 billion over ten years. Cost of extending them on everyone else is about $3 trillion over ten years. Which one is the little bit that isn't so little?