Zippin Pippin likely to cost half-million more than anticipated

I've sneaky suspicion for some it has more to do with the content of my opinion than the style of my presentation. We could be holding debate on any numerous topics this thread has delved into. Do Keynesian policies ever work? Should all government pensions be frozen? Is a rollercoaster the same as a standard community park? Should we not extend the Bush Tax Cuts? Can we afford Obamacare? Should we believe the city of Green Bay when they say they will make money on the coaster? Does extending unemployment stimulate the economy?

All the above questions were brought up by posters other than I. Most seem interesting to me. They must be interesting to others since THEY brought them up.

Or we can discuss the merits of my posting style and how it is too wordy/goofy/repetitive/etc. Maybe we could have a comparison discussion of my style versus those who make it personal, name names, claim they are not reading and then keep commenting, generalize, etc...
We could dicuss if it is possible to be as short and concise quoting 2005 CBO tax tables to denounce an argument versus calling somebody an idiot to do the same... or somebody utilizing the "I'm right because I say I'm right" debate technique. There are all sorts of directions these conversations could go. As many directions as there are styles of conversation. This great diversity is what makes opinion boards such a nice form of entertainment.

Anyhow, I sincerely appreciate those that care enough to offer constructive criticism as to how I can better convey my message...

Dude I don't care about your differing opinion. For the record, that's where I stopped reading. I get long winded too. But you blabber more than make a point. You fail to communicat your point when people stop listening. Even with the ones who agree with you.

Hey new guy... people have been happily disagreeing here for 10 years. Some of the people you're conversing with have been here since nearly the start, too. Don't flatter yourself.

I think it's easy to talk about the "rich" as faceless groups. But what about when that evil business is Cedar Fair or Six Flags or Herschend? What happens if they suddenly have to pay millions-- tens of millions-- more in taxes? Do you think you're going to see the multi-million dollar capital improvement budgets each year like you do now?

Ever wonder where the Kochs and Knoebels, for example, fall on the income scale? How do you know they aren't part of the greedy bastard crew that's ruining the economy? I know that a few years ago, the local school board around Elysburg wanted to have every individual "permanent" ride and structure at Knoebels assessed and taxed separately. Think that would have put a damper on any future improvements? But think of how much local education would have advanced with all that new revenue.

Content and disagreements aside, nobody likes a wall of text. Just sayin'.

Bear:

There is a misconception about the rich on multiple levels. First, who are "the rich?" Is it over a million? Obama seems to think $250,000 for an entire family is rich. Is it?

Then there is the misconception about their ability to pay for everything. There simply are not enough "rich"...even if you use the 250 K per family to pull us out of 50 Trillion debt.

Those that utilize the "rich" need to pay more debate do it out of mathematical ignorance or class warfare.

I don't make $250k, but the more I do make, the more I find it's easier to lower my effective tax rate with deductions. The suggestion that those of ample income are getting the screws put to them strikes me as disingenuous.

Agreed, Jeff, but I think "disingenuous" might be softballing it a bit. I guess the pre-Bush tax rates were just plain Socialism by another name.

Seriously though, it's not unreasonable to ask those that have more to pay more...given it's within reason of course. But the idea that asking *anything* of those who have more is "fleecing the rich"...that's pure insanity. When the tax laws were first put in place, the highest marginal tax rate was 91%. I'd grant that 91% is unreasonable to ask of anyone...but to continuously cut taxes while granting billions in earmarks to those who stand in front of Congress and constantly criticize earmarks as wasteful....like, WTH is going on here?

edited to add: Having NO income brackets above 250K, given that 250K isn't really *that much* anymore (well, it is to me, but I understand)...that's basically lumping the uber-rich in with the merely "well-off". There needs to be some distinctions made...

rollergator said:
Having NO income brackets above 250K, given that 250K isn't really *that much* anymore (well, it is to me, but I understand)...that's basically lumping the uber-rich in with the merely "well-off". There needs to be some distinctions made...

I disagree. Don't those earning $250k+ make up something like 2% of all earners in the US? Why bother parsing such a tiny minority out into even smaller groups?

I'm so glad you guys are roller coaster enthusiasts and not politicians running any sort of government that affects me. :)

Lord Gonchar said:
I'm so glad you guys are roller coaster enthusiasts and not politicians running any sort of government that affects me. :)

AMEN!!

GoBucks89 said:

Lord Gonchar said:
I'm so glad you guys are roller coaster enthusiasts and not politicians running any sort of government that affects me. :)

AMEN!!

Funny - seeing Gonch's post that was my exact reaction too.

Look out. I'm leading the revolution!

Indeed. Seems to be the unpopular opinion around here, until Gonch speaks up.

On paper, it all sounds so noble...the more you make (y'know, you just don't need all that extra money), the more you should be expected to fork over to the government. How about the precedent it sets, that the government penalizes success? What incentive do I have to make more money if the government is going to take a larger percentage? How is that freedom, and not a form of Socialism?

The government as it stands now (and has for decades) takes an "incrementally" larger portion every time you jump into a higher tax bracket....that's why they're called marginal tax rates. Yet I still don't see people asking for pay cuts to save on taxes....weird. Or not. Might be Maverick...

Link: http://lifeinc.todayshow.com/_news/2010/12/08/5613910-some-millionaires-say-tax-me-please

Also: http://wealthforcommongood.org/

Vater said:
How is that freedom, and not a form of Socialism?

Are you suggesting the two are mutually exclusive?

gator, I would argue that people have never needed to argue for pay cuts when they could just apply some deductions-- added into the tax code legally-- to reduce their income by a bracket or two. And that was not a "trick" used exclusively by the rich. Remember when all credit card interest could be deducted? IRA contributions? It used to be quite easy to come up with enough deductions and credits so even people in lower income levels could itemize.

Brandon, I can't speak for Vater, but I would say "yes." Yes, they are mutually exclusive. I spent some time in former Iron Curtain countries after the fall of communism. Soon after that the mindset definitely had not changed. Economically, it's inefficient and unproductive. Socially, it's stifling. You may think it's everyone standing around holding hands singing "Imagine," but in practice, it's very very different. The system offers little in the way of freedom and acknowledgment of human dignity.

So, we've not been living in a free country for the past... what, 100 years or so? That's news to me.

djDaemon said:
So, we've not been living in a free country for the past... what, 100 years or so? That's news to me.

Partially so...at least in the sense these guys are talking.

Yes, we have systems that work on the premise of socialism. It's not a surprise or big and scary. Those tend to be systems I disagree with too.

Disagreeing with socialist systems is fine. Suggesting those systems are incompatible with freedom is absurdly hyperbolic.

In fact, the very ability to disagree with those systems, and to vote against their implementation, sounds pretty damn freedomy to me.