Zippin Pippin likely to cost half-million more than anticipated

Local government doesn't have the credit resources that the feds do. When local government runs out of money, it lets people go and stuff stops.

Aamilj said:
Quiz: When is the last time the Congressional Budget Office has overestimated funds needed for a program/project?

For all the grief the government gets, the CBO is about as good as anyone else at making such predictions. In fact, according to their own statistical analysis in this report (PDF), over a 25-year span, the CBO was just as good as the so-called "Blue Chip forecasters" at making budget predictions.

According to my own statistical analysis, I know better than the CBO that they underestimate the cost of programs... :)

As far as local government shutting down, letting people go, etc. I'm of the opinion that building a roller coaster probably should not fall under ANY government control. I know that this type of "development" does happen in certain places, but I still don't see why/how "we the people" allowed this to happen.

While I personally love coasters and would actually utilize a government funded/subsidized amusement park, I still don't believe this is appropriate use of the people's money. I believe the same for sport's stadiums, art districts, etc (insert your favorite non-essential pet project here). I believe that a good idea should stand on its own. Private investors should step to the plate and make it work. If not, then I'm guessing the idea/plan is not so great. I do not see how or why folks who don't care about coasters should have to see their tax dollars go to fund a project they will never utilize. This type of stuff wreaks of politician's pimping their pet projects.

While I have no say in the matter, if I ruled the world, folks depending upon government subsidies for non-essential projects would see "people let go and stuff stopped." They would be encouraged to develop and support an an entrepreneurial spirit to raise funds for their projects privately. I'd consider tax breaks and encourage low rates in general to foster a friendly business atmosphere (there would be no 39,000 page environmental impact proposal...see Universal Thread). The moment they asked for public funding for their project...the conversation would end.

Thunder Run is a Gem, and I'm hoping it opens with the park in 2012. I really loved the ride, and wish the Hurlers were more like it than not.

Aamilj said:
I'm of the opinion that building a roller coaster probably should not fall under ANY government control.

Drawing a line in the sand on the issue is not constructive. I realize that it's particularly fashionable right now to write off government involvement in anything, but it's rarely that black and white.

Tax abatements, bond issues, etc., often serve a purpose for developing a local community. Without them, the city I used to live in would've had to place a higher tax burden on residents just to provide basic safety services, not to mention maintain roads and such. These programs brought companies to the city, and along with it, more industrial tax revenue and income tax from the jobs in the city.

An argument often made against these arrangements is that it interferes with the normal "free market economy." That strikes me as lazy thinking on a principle, instead of accepting that government can (and does) participate in the economy.

I'm not suggesting that government at all levels doesn't spend money on really stupid things, I'm only suggesting that, like most things in life, there's no simple black and white.

Well, the government played pretty "hands-off" with the financial sector for the past generation or so since Reagan, and that seemed to do pretty well... ;)

OK, so maybe absolute free-market capitalism isn't exactly "all that and a bag of chips" either... :)

Looks like the City Council Passed this thing 7-4.

If they had been honest with cost projections, would it have passed? And since they were unable to correctly and honestly project costs 8 months ago, are the tax payers now supposed to blindly overlook that and accept that this is a moneymaker...because the same folks said it will be? Who is accountable?

There is not much black and white to this. Green Bay's Council took a gamble with city money (i.e. taxpayer money) that a wooden coaster will prove to be a wise investment. It is a gamble...nothing more and nothing less. It certainly not a gamble any private investor was willing to make.

I question how we got to a point in society that it is acceptable for a government entity to gamble our money on such a non-essential project. It may prove wise, or like so many other similar (Las Vegas Monorail, Rye Playland, Cyclone Coaster, etc) it will be a huge money drain. If this rollercoaster is such a good investment, why was it sitting there rotting with nary a private investor willing to take it? Memphis was dancing away their blues when some other city called to take this mess off their hands.

Drawing a line in the sand on what is and is not acceptable risk versus a return on investment is indeed good policy. I fail to see how anybody can argue that Elvis's favorite coaster in decayed condition was worth spending millions of tax dollars on. How many months a year can a wooden coaster run in Green Bay? What will the maintenance costs be on top of what they have already spent?

I know coaster folks like it because a coaster was saved. I understand... But Joe and Jane taxpayer in Green Bay who don't want or care about a coaster should not be forced to see their tax-money go to such a risky and non-essential investment. A new school, a road, a college, a sewer plant, etc...all reasonable and defensible needs to serve the greater public. The Zippin Pippen Coaster? Read that out loud a few times and tell me if that does not sound like some crazy joke from the line for Simpson's Ride?

Government/private partnerships often make sense. However, often times the benefit of the public spending is overstated (sports facilities are a good example) or the costs are understated. Everyone remembers the ground breaking/ribbon cutting at the grand opening but few follow up on the transaction to see if it made economic sense. Long term in the US is the next election cycle.

Our current financial problems stem more from dumb government intervention than they do free-market capitalism. Without government keeping interest rates too low for too long and guaranteeing real estate loans, the housing bubble/crash never happens. Government put bad incentives in place and human nature took over and created a disaster.

Aamilj said:
Who is accountable?

There is not much black and white to this...

And I say, who cares? I didn't read beyond that point in your post because you're using one example to write off government as a whole.

I love that Aamilj is still around yelling politics on a coaster board, LOL.

At least the rest of us mix it up with coaster discussion.

PS, it's not an old decaying coaster, they're building a totally new one.

What are you, some kind of armchair politician now, Clint? Geez. Get a life.

Dave Matthews sucks.

However, often times the benefit of the public spending is overstated (sports facilities are a good example) or the costs are understated. Everyone remembers the ground breaking/ribbon cutting at the grand opening but few follow up on the transaction to see if it made economic sense. Long term in the US is the next election cycle.

That is the point I was trying to make. This is the reason that multiple levels of our government from Federal, to State, to local are bankrupt. We are sold an "illusion" and stuck footing the bill. Yet we fall for the same bait and switch time and time again...believing that this time the government is going to do it right and save/make us money. When do we wake up and say enough is enough?

No matter the counterargument, I stand firm in the opinion that Taxpayer funds should never be risked investing in rollercoasters. When it gets to this level of disconnect, safe to say that we see reason that so many are disenfranchised with elected officials. I can imagine the look on Jefferson and Adam's faces if they ever thought government involvement in our lives would reach all the way to our leisure choices...

Aamilj said:
This is the reason that multiple levels of our government from Federal, to State, to local are bankrupt.

That's an absolutely hilarious oversimplification.

Clint clearly states that he has no life, and it is apparent looking through these forums.

Tekwardo said:
Dave Matthews sucks.

Armchair music critic now, too?

Degado said:
Clint clearly states that he has no life, and it is apparent looking through these forums.

LOL nice way to impose yourself on a joke between friends. Josh knows I don't think DMB sucks.

LOL. Oh well. It's impossible to hold a fake fight with anyone these days.

You can always yell at me on Facebook. Oh wait... ;-)

P.S. I love that someone who obviously thought it was important to note how many times they rode Diamondback this summer says I have no life...

See my sig.