Yet Another horrible experience with Six flags parks!
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I don't think anyone is "chastising" him. I think most (if not all) are saying that this is simply not the norm for that park.
And so what if it's not the norm for the park? That's still saying his complaints aren't valid just because "Great America isn't normally like that!"
YOU GUYS think about this a very crowded SLOW moving que completely covered in by trees, bushesm and a yellow vent tarp over your head a LARGE number of thugs in line and I mean just a lot of youngsters who act and look like they are looking for trouble. Come on you guys no you see these groups in parks as well. Then some young man probably around 17 - 19 years old passes out to the point he falls over choking then passes out and hits his head so hard on the rail and pavement he has a bloody lip and a goose egg on his head. the lemonade seller goes and says he yelled for help then the line gets kind of out of control a little bit and yells at the lemonade guy again and he finally runs out of the que and sends in the security guard. seriuosly like over 20 minutes after the kid fell the rescue team finally gets there and gets the kid up and out of there. I have diabetes and if I fell down it would be really ****ty if it took 20 minutes for someone to get me help. Or hows about someone having a heart attack or stroke. they could be DEAD people.
It was ABSOLUTELY unacceptable in my eyes. SORRY I did not intend to ruffle so many feathers. It just seems that their is no control in the 3 and yes only 3 Six flags parks I had been too. especially on the loading platform of the coasters. it is like free for all. Unsafe at times. really.
As far as someone picking me apart on the condition of lanscaping and trash.
In the line for superman that I bet if you measure it from side to side it is not as wide as other coasters. I could be wrong but, I would be eager to see that measurement. it is tight in there.
Look at the flowers, brown grass, old mulch. Every charracter sign on the long straigt part of the superman line was FULL of bird crap and faded from the sun. Dead Flowers and lots of trash in the que. the yellow roof thing was full of debree too.
IT WAS FILTHY YES. get over it already.
Someone also said, Open your eyes a little.
For the money for admission and the cost of parking and $300 for a bottle of water We should not have to open our eyes. They should be making it a pleasant and clean experience.
I have been to CP on their busiest days. They keep up with it. PERIOD..
Now next subject already.
If I'm at SFGAdv from 10a-3p and both Ka and El Toro open at noon and I miss one of them I may have thought I had a bad day. But someone else coming to the park at 1pm and staying until 8pm will have no idea they were closed earlier, most likely will ride both if they choose to do so, and leave feeling as if they had a good time.
I don't want to repeat myself so I suggest anyone who missed my comments near the bottom of page 1 click over and read them.
By the end of the day, the queues did have trash and the trash cans were filled. Please take note of the time coasterguy went. During the evening on a Saturday. His first impression is not going to be of a freshly cleaned park, but of one that has been occupied for several hours on a Saturday.
The fast pass. I'm sorry, but I find it ironic coasterguy is complaining about the fast pass, but purchased it himself. Call me confused. My husband and I, being old farts, got the Fastpass so we didn't have to wait in huge lines for the coasters we wanted to ride. There was someone there to punch the pass most of the day. BUT, I did notice the last hour or so, the fastpass lines were not monitored well monitored.
I do agree, somewhat, that if you go into a park expecting certain things to not be up to your personal standards, of course you are going to notice those things more and it will affect your overall impression. Overall, I was upbeat about my experience, and although the uncleanliness near the end of the day, slow moving lines (especially Deja Vu!) and the lack of line monitoring were noted, overall I enjoyed my day at the park and will go back anytime.
The one thing that does concern me is the poor response to the medical emergency. As coasterguy says, that could be a life or death situation for some people. I don't care how far a queue is away from security or the medical facilitiy, 20 minutes or more is too long a response time. Maybe the food service employee was not aware of the responsibility he had. I'm sure if the incident happened within sight of a ride op, it would have been much different.
If a lot of what coasterguy experienced is due to cutbacks, then, frankly, I'm disappointed, because SFGAm is definitely one of the best in the SF chain, and I'd seriously hate to see that park lose it's appeal.
I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
kRaXLeRidAh said:
And so what if it's not the norm for the park? That's still saying his complaints aren't valid just because "Great America isn't normally like that!"
No, that's not what people are saying. He's making generalizations about the entire park - and the entire chain - by one visit to SFGAm. If I went to Cedar Point for a few hours and complained that it's a terrible park, I'm sure I'd hear about it from the locals (like Coasterguy). Yes, the complaints are valid. No, they are not normal for that park. No, they are not indicative of how that park operates in general.
Certainly you, of all people, should understand that given the way you frequently used to defend SFMM.
-Nate
It’s a choice parks make with their guests. Holiday World takes every opportunity to spoil their guests and seems to be experiencing huge success. While Six Flag's trend seems to be to charge a lot for everything they can, while offering poor hospitality. The parks don't seem to care that they tick off a ton of people. It's choice that's doesn't seem to be a very good one given their billions in debt.
Theorizing how to make parks "family friendly" from a board room just doesn't seem to produce results, because Six Flags is still pretty darn family unfriendly. The folks at Holiday World I bet spend more time walking around their park then hanging out in meetings, obviously to their advantage.
Six Flags still seems to be choosing to be on the low end of the hospitality spectrum. As long as they claim that spot, most parks will be able to promise a better bang for their buck to families and to the public in general. Six Flags is becoming the best at bad hospitality, with a reputation that will last years beyond any shift in direction.
Difficult to hold on to a loyal fan base in that context. I'm sure Six Flags looks at the numbers and thinks, "Hey, only thirty left the park unhappy." But if out of a dozen visits, a family gets screwed once, you lost that fan base. Privately owned parks like Knobel's, Kennywood, and Holiday World bank on their loyal return visitors. They get it, and I'm not sure why this is so hard for Six Flags to figure out.
Unfortunately for Six Flags, coasters are a small component of the total amusement park experience. *** Edited 8/16/2006 4:24:09 PM UTC by rc-madness***
If the guy running the lemonade stand didn't notify someone in a timely manner, he should be reprimanded.
The medical staff there are very efficient. If they aren't told about the situation right away and have no knowledge it is going on, they are not at fault. They responded I am sure quickly once they "FINALLY" got word of it.
I will also agree on coasterguy's assessment of the condition of Superman's queue lines. That is one of the few things at the park I will say could use some work.
I personally have never had a horrid experience at any SF park I have visited, but out of the ones I have been to, SFGAm overall outperforms the others.
My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.
I don't think this is a problem unique to this chain either. Just wondering, with all the park employees on this site, what kind and how much training are you given in emergency procedures? Would you know what to do or who to call in the case of an emergency like Coasterguy described?
Not to defend any bad employees,its no excuse,but this time of year(having worked at 2 parks)you are starting to run out of gas.From the long and many hours put in,the hot weather,and the dealing with the many thousands of guests,it can take its toll on you a bit.You got to cut the employees a little slack this time of season.
But the thing with the lemonaid guy was wrong.
*** Edited 8/17/2006 4:14:59 AM UTC by Ex_Westview and KW_worker***
P.S. For those who take me too seriously there, I spent six or seven years growing up across the Bay Bridge from Annapolis. We always drove to KD or BG:TOC then again, Adventure World wasn't much in the early 80s.
Most SF parks are good places to be. Unfortunately, the other parks get more of the "press"...and they're also the ones located near some population centers, and could rake in OODLES more cash for SFI if they were run properly. (Offer esp. valid in MD, NJ, L.A., and MA.)
Coasterguy said:
First: I was there from 5:30pm. till 9:40p.m. on Saturday.
And you complained about the cost of the park. Now, once again I ask -- did you get yourself a season pass (free if you paid full price) or use a coupon to get in? I understand that the price is still rather spendy, but you can't complain that the park is too expensive if there are offers you could have taken advantage of, especially since the season pass deal is something the parks seem to be advertising at the door.
2nd: Why is it that people cannot just state a bad trip report without you kids on here getting all wacked out and start swearing at people.
A bad trip report would be fine. A purposely slanted trip report is different.
3rd: I have plenty of cash and that is not the point here. The point is that it is just a show of the greediness involved in the chain. If eveyone paid the extra cash, then their will someday be even longer lines for everyone don't ya get it? I do not agree that CP offers the VIP either. I think during regular hours Everyone should have to wait in the same line. It is pretty simple. CP employees even wait in the lines when they ride.
Actually, I know how the system at SFGAm works -- they sell a *limited* amount of Flash Passes per day. I don't know what the number is, but let's say that they want to sell 1/5th their ride capacity for the day, and there are 5 rides operating for 10 hours with capacities of 1000. That means they could sell 10,000 total rides, or 2500 Flash Passes.
After those 2500 are sold out, it's over. I know of people who have been there on busy days and the Flash Passes were sold out by 11:00AM. So the park will not allow everyone to pay the extra money, thus guaranteeing that the Flash Passes are worth the money for the people that purchased them, and the people waiting in line don't get screwed by the line for Flash Pass.
In fact, unlike other parks in the chain, I wish the Great America system went other places -- it still forces people with Flash Passes to wait for their spot in the train if they want to. They are not assigned a spot, and they do not get to skip directly to whatever row they want. It's customer friendly. And, quite frankly, from how I understand that it works, it works well. I haven't been to the park since it was started, but I think it works well from everything I've heard about it.
And for the record, Six Flags employees wait in the lines when they ride except when they are working and have to ride the rides. Cedar Fair employees operate with the same rules.
4th: EVERY INCH of my post was the truth and fact from Saturday night at the park. Their was no employee for the last 25 minutes of my long wait at Superman and the "THUGS" were indeed getting off the ride and getting right back into line on the right hand side for the front of the train then they would cut throught he raling at the top of ths steps and head to the back of the train. Their were so many people on the station because of lack of control that the few ride ops did not see it at all. NOBODY is willing to let them no in fear of a brawl when their are alot of these thug types doing it.
I'll say this again -- you could not have seen the same group enter the line more than once from the Superman queue line. And if there was no employee there, perhaps it was because Flash Pass doesn't operate every hour the park is open.
The que for Superman was very tite and narrow compared to most other QUES I have been in over my life. Oh, THE past 25 years of coaster riding. It may seem even more though as it is completely enclosed for the first 1.5 hours of my wait on Saturday as the ride did break down for about 15 minutes.
Odd, I found the Shockwave queue when I rode that ride to be a rather nice sized queue line. Sure, it wasn't as big as the brand new OSHA-approved queues which are big enough to get a wheelchair through (and it could be argued are also a lot easier to line jump in), but there were other queue lines in that same park that I found to be tighter. Batman under the station and Demon come to mind.
And I see no way that Magnum or Millenium are much bigger than those.
The emplyees are lazy. When someone passes out and it take nearly 25 minutes for help to arrive but the guy can still sell Lemonade then something is wrong.
That is one example. You made it sound like all of the employees are lazy. Do you have any more examples?
The restroom I stopped in at the front of the park walking from Ragining Bull to Superman was disgusting "At the time".
Okay, fair enough. But I don't think that one stop in one bathroom is an indicator of the entire park. Ever work in fast food? You can walk into the bathroom and clean it a ton, and all you need is some prankster to walk in a minute after you leave and toss around garbage and miss the urinals on purpose, and the bathroom looks horrible. If you only stopped at one, I don't think that you should take this as a sign that *every* bathroom was dirty.
The park was dirty. and unkept, YES IT WAS. I saw so many trash cans that were overflowing it was rediculous. I also noticed that a lot of signs needed repainting and their were tons of cigarette butts everywhere and crap on the sun shades etc.. It is odd but, maybe it is just me, When I used to play Rollercoaster Tycoon alot I now notice that little stuff in the park like, flowers, and trash etc.. It cannot be just me that sees this stuff after playing that game. ???
Funny, I had a friend who I found out was there on the same day, and he wrote me an email that was very glowing about the place. He said that it was very busy, but that the ride operators and the lines were moving quickly, the employees were all great, the park looked really nice and he had a blast. He was there all day long and reported that it was one of the best times he's ever had at that park -- and he has been there rather often.
So why is it that you guys jump all over people on here. I go to Cedar Point at least 20 times per season and it NEVER EVER looks like the park I was in this past satruday.. Neither Did Holiday World when I was there. Or Disney or Bush Gardens etc.. I have now been to 3 Six Flags parks and 2 out of the 3. Magic mountain and Great America were both VERY BAD in my eyes. I would not go back.. this is not a rant this is a factual trip report and why is it that you guys cannot handle it?
I jump on people who I think are either making things up or are looking for reasons to pick on a park. If I wanted to, I could walk into any park and have a bad day by looking for things to make me angry or disappointed, which makes it sound like what you did. The passing out issue is something that seems to be very odd, however I think that you probably exaggerated a "little" about the time that took. Here's why:
You said you were in line for Superman for an hour and a half. There was a 15 minute breakdown which oddly enough, you didn't mention in the first post (you could've claimed "poor maintenance" or something). I've been in part of that queue line. How is it that someone passed out for 25 minutes and you were able to watch the entire episode while in a line that was moving? Even if you moved 1/3rd of the way in that line while you were there, I don't understand how you could've seen what was going on that entire time, and I don't see how people in line could be so cruel as to just step over the downed person and continue on their way. I've been in lines where people have passed out -- the line stops and gets help. It's kinda a neat thing to see people coming together like that. If someone passed out, they aren't going to stand there and say never mind and just walk over the person.
I bet that someone passed out as you said, and the Lemonade guy called for help. I'm guessing that help arrived, but for whatever reason didn't know exactly where to go. And, because they were trying to figure that out, they came in walking through the line trying to look for the person who was passed out instead of accidentally running past them. I bet that if the Lemonade guy left a second time, it was to find the person who was coming to help.
I also bet that this didn't really take any longer than 10 minutes at the most. Any longer than that, and it would've made a VERY significant impact in your wait in line.
So unless you're leaving out a HUGE part of the story, there is something fishy about it. Maybe you're embellishing it a little, or it seemed like longer because you were worried for the person, or you just hate Six Flags so you figured it had to be longer than it was.
Sorry to call you out on this, but your TR just seems to be far too "embellished" for my tastes.
Chitown said:
I completely agree the response to this persons medical situation that day was unacceptable but once again, as Nate has stated, this is not the norm for this park.If the guy running the lemonade stand didn't notify someone in a timely manner, he should be reprimanded.
The medical staff there are very efficient. If they aren't told about the situation right away and have no knowledge it is going on, they are not at fault. They responded I am sure quickly once they "FINALLY" got word of it.
Just as a related fact, anyone remember when there was a death on Raging Bull by the girl in 2002 or 2003? On that day, the park was on the ride platform trying to revive the girl within minutes of the train returning. I believe that the news after the death stated that EMTs were on the scene giving CPR within two minutes of the ride returning to the platform, and the ride queue line was cleared out completely within five.
*If* the park was slow to react, this was purely the Lemonade guy's fault, and for that Guest Relations should have been told and the man should have been reprimanded if not fired. But as I said, I'd be surprised if it took more than 10 minutes for someone to get there, and if the time didn't just seem longer either because you were already angry with the park or because you were scared and it seemed like it took forever.
As a note of record, I had a bad day at Disneyland of all places, due specifically to cleanliness issues, line jumping and poorly performing employees. The lines were also extremely long that day, although I think it is hard to fault any park for being popular. While I was disappointed with my day at the park, I had bought two day passes and I went back the next day and my experience was almost the exact opposite of what it had been the day before, even with shorter ride lines.
If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, any day can be bad at a park.
First, you are reading way to into this. Don't you have something better to do?
the line or Superman actually ended up taking nearly 2 hours from start to finish.
About 45 minutes into it about 3/4 into the maze is when the kid passed out. THE LINE STOPPED moving for that 20 minutes. Nobody walked around that group of he and his friends. the lemonade guy left and came right back and said he called for help. The 10 minutes the line grew angry and he went out again and brought back the security guy who then called the emt crew. they all left the line calmed down tough everyone was talking about how long it took. then while in the straight away looking at bird ****, garbage and dead flowers. THat is when I noticed the thugs skipping back through the flash pass line because their was NO EMPLOYEE there......
Then just as I made it to the stairs it shut down for about 10-15 minutes is all then onto the station. The whole thing took just over 2 hours. MOSTLY becaue the crew at Six Flags must no be required to fill trains like they do on the long wait rides at Cedar Point.
Don't question this story this is rediculous I feel like I am on trial for you morons who act like theese things do not happen. I posted this because had I known this park was run poorly I would not have bothered. If someone would have told me how God awful Magic Mountain was I would not have wasted a trip to CA just to go there either. I did pay full price as it was a fly by day thing I was not planning on going there. I was passing though Chicago that day and that is it. IT is an expensive park. come on.
I am entitled to my opinion that SIX FLAGS PARKS in general are run poorly. GET OVER IT!
2) Even with a breakdown, I have a hard time believing the Superman queue took two hours. I've waited in the full queue with the line stretching down the midway and it's never been much more than an hour
3) You can't see the Flashpass line from the enclosed queue, especially from 3/4 of the way through it. There are walls on all sides.
I have no doubt that you had a bad day, but I also have no doubt that you went in with a poor attitude and are exaggerating some of the facts.
-Nate
Coasterguy said:
"Thecoasterguy"First, you are reading way to into this. Don't you have something better to do?
the line or Superman actually ended up taking nearly 2 hours from start to finish.
Holy crap! How did that happen? The line opening year on the longest days wasn't even that long, unless you were dealing with long breakdowns. Even with a 15 minute breakdown, that is still about double what it would have taken.
About 45 minutes into it about 3/4 into the maze is when the kid passed out. THE LINE STOPPED moving for that 20 minutes. Nobody walked around that group of he and his friends. the lemonade guy left and came right back and said he called for help. The 10 minutes the line grew angry and he went out again and brought back the security guy who then called the emt crew. they all left the line calmed down tough everyone was talking about how long it took. then while in the straight away looking at bird ****, garbage and dead flowers. THat is when I noticed the thugs skipping back through the flash pass line because their was NO EMPLOYEE there......
*sigh* Okay, as Nate already pointed out, it is physically impossible to see the Flash Pass entrance from that point in line. I've seen pictures of the queue because I was very interested in that when it happened (I think it is a rather poorly designed queue not for the reasons that you state, but because the line is in such a place that you can see very little of the ride until the straightaway portion heading to the ride. I remember when I rode Shockwave thinking the same thing about it, and also wondering why in the world the queue line was a huge bridge most of the way to the ride when there didn't seem to be much of a reason for that. From what I have seen in pictures, they removed the long bridge from the Superman queue and it is now a straight ground shot.
If it is the same distance as Shockwave, which I have no reason to doubt it would be similiar, the winding queue line is about 3/4ths of the line, and the straight shot is very quick. So even if if took you an hour to make it through the windy queue line, I don't think you would've been in the straight shot for more than 20 minutes tops.
Then just as I made it to the stairs it shut down for about 10-15 minutes is all then onto the station. The whole thing took just over 2 hours. MOSTLY becaue the crew at Six Flags must no be required to fill trains like they do on the long wait rides at Cedar Point.
I made a point about this in my first one that explained why a good park would operate this way, but I see that you skipped it. Let's do the math really quickly...
Let's say that on average, the dispatch time for a train on Superman is two minutes. I think this would be a pretty fair time, as I believe that the ride time is less than this. There are 32 people that can fit in the train. So, one train leaving every two minutes means the park can send 30 trains per hour, or 960 guests per hour.
Now, lets say that there are a lot of smaller groups in the park, and they are only filling up three seats per row, for a train of 24 people. Under the same rate, the park has sent through 720 people in an hour. I'd like to say that this would be an EXTREMELY poor amount of people to get on the train, and even people doing their own thing will usually fill up a train more.
So now we say that the park should fill up the trains 100% before dispatch. Doing so adds a minute of time for the employees to figure out how many people they need and where they are coming from. Now the average dispatch time has fallen to three minutes a train, (and it probably would be worse), but they are totally filling the train. Now, the park is sending 32 people *every single train* and still operating rather efficiently considering they have to herd people into seats they don't really want to sit in. So what is the capacity?
640 per hour.
By not wasting time looking for single riders to fill up the seats, the park actually _gains_ 80 riders an hour, even though the trains are 25% empty.
I don't know if it can be made any clearer than that. And, for the record, on my trips to Cedar Point they have never waited to completely fill the trains unless the ride is new, and then they have someone directing traffic who will usually not allow people to sit where they want.
Don't question this story this is rediculous I feel like I am on trial for you morons who act like theese things do not happen. I posted this because had I known this park was run poorly I would not have bothered. If someone would have told me how God awful Magic Mountain was I would not have wasted a trip to CA just to go there either.
I'm sorry, but your complaints _literally_ don't compute. I don't mind people slamming a park that has done things poorly if their statements are well backed up and they don't seem to have such a chip on their shoulder. But when you mention things like poor operations and bad response time for things that seem to be highly embellished at the least, I can't trust it. Considering that I greatly enjoyed Six Flags Great America, I would hate for someone to read this TR and decide not to give them a shot.
I did pay full price as it was a fly by day thing I was not planning on going there. I was passing though Chicago that day and that is it. IT is an expensive park. come on.
You paid full price? So what else are you planning on doing with your Six Flags Season Pass this year? Even if you didn't like the park and you aren't from the area, there is probably at least one more Six Flags park you could get to. Kentucky Kingdom probably won't change you mind about the chain, but if you're around Sandusky it is probably driving distance for you. And hey, since you paid full price (and got a free season pass), why not, right?
And if you didn't want the season pass which I'm sure will be your reply, then why didn't you bring a gas receipt? You could've bought gas right outside the park and saved $15.00.
I am entitled to my opinion that SIX FLAGS PARKS in general are run poorly. GET OVER IT!
That's fine. But I'm also entitled to my opinion that your Trip Report was written poorly. Either you can "get over it" or you can read my comments and realize that perhaps you are angry about things that you shouldn't be.
So what if the "average enthusiast" travels around alot and has visited 4 SF parks, 2 of which were ok and 2 of which were horrible. They can say as a whole, SF isn't THAT bad, but most people only visit their local park and don't bother traveling all over to visit specific parks, so they have a 50% chance of having a bad taste in their mouth from a SF park. If they happen to only go to both of the "bad parks", why wouldn't they rule SF out as a whole? Why would they keep traveling to find a "good SF park" just to have a good experience and give their closest one another chance? *** Edited 8/17/2006 4:20:22 PM UTC by P18***
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