World's Largest Loop?

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Lord Gonchar said:If the loop is 30 feet off the ground, it would be 114 feet and stand 45 feet higher than the cliff wall. (like Impulse-ive said)

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Just look at the proportions in this photo. From the entrance of the loop to top of the loop is roughly 5 times the portion that is off the ground. If that loop starts 30 feet off the ground, that would make it a 150 foot loop sitting 180 feet high. Not possible.

*** Edited 12/17/2004 7:49:38 PM UTC by Jeffrey Seifert***

Ahh, nice photo.

You're almost dead on - the elevation is pretty damn close to 1/6th of the total height. (here's my non-scientific photoshop approach)

So if we all agree that the total height is 145 feet, then:

145/6= 24.16 feet.

Using my ultra-non-scientific calculations we get a 121 foot loop with a 24 foot elevation.

Still not the biggest loop if dominator's is the 135 feet mentioned in this thread.

EDIT - As long as we agree you need to best 135 feet for the biggest loop, then using the 1/6th elevation estimate, the total loop height would have to reach 162 feet to make a 136 foot loop.

*** Edited 12/17/2004 7:59:23 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I counted the track ties within the loop and came up with 65 for Dominator, 66 for Krypton. Now granted it's hard to count with the train in the way and I could be off a tie or two, but I think it pretty much proves that Dominator cannot be 135 feet and Krypton only 114 feet.

So Mr. Impulse-ive, it appears that RCDB is indeed incorrect with at least one of the stats.

BTW I like to believe that RCDB is as accurate as it can be, I've even sent corrections to Duane in the past. Just because someone points out an error doesn't mean you have to attack them personally.

I was just taking a condecending (sp?) tone in reaction to yours, eye for an eye and all that rubbish (I'm feeling English today ... )

My engineering sense would tell me that the spacing on the track ties doesn't necessarily have to be the same for the two loops, even if they were fabricated at the same time. The train size, the expected speed into and out of the loop, the local conditions, all of those would probably dictate the spacing of the ties. It strikes me as odd engineering judgement if B&M uses the exact same tie spacing on every track piece, regardless of train forces, environmental forces, etc.

That being said, even counting the number of ties doesn't settle the argument though. We're talking 137 vs. 140-150 ft, and 1 tie spacing would not make up even the 3ft to the minimum difference.

I think the most compelling argument (and one I was going to do myself if this lasted until I got home) was to find a pic with the train in relatively the same position and judge off the train length. Dr Pepper did that earlier, confirming the 137 vs 114 again. I think there is a lot more evidence for the 137 vs 114 than anything else, although no one's really got enough to take it to court ;)

And on a totally different note, the way Dr Pepper PhD matches up to the thread title on the main page, if you look at it real fast it looks like "World's Largest Poop?" which seems to mesh well with another active thread right now ...

Superman:Krypton Coaster- 137ft loop

Batman:Knight Flight- 135ft loop

Medusa (West)- 128ft loop

Riddler's Revenge- 124ft loop

Don't ask me where I got these stats, but they've been sitting on my computer rollercoaster log for a few years. Are they completly acurate? I'm not sure, but they sound about right.

World's largest loop is currently being erected in Tampa.

I've always assumed that SKC's loop was bigger. Here I found two pics on the rides where the picture is taken in the same angle and the train is in the same position. Taking the length of each train and stacking them, these are my results. From this is looks like SKC's loop is slightly larger in diameter and slightly higher off the ground. (but in the end its just another estimate)

http://www.geaugaguide.com/media/try.jpg

Photo Credits:

http://sfftnet.com/images/061213.jpg

http://www.geaugaguide.com/album/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=14

DWeaver's stats would make sense looking at my attempt t *** Edited 12/17/2004 8:33:26 PM UTC by SFWoARules!***

DWeaver - those stats look correct to me.

What about Kumba? I always thought that had a tall loop.

http://www.rcdb.com/id94.htm <<-- Kumba's Loop is 114 feet tall.

Wow...I'm lazy...I totally forgot about using RCDB...:)

Wait, so we are all in agreement that Viper at SFMM has the world's tallest loop? The debate is what loop is the actual biggest loop? Never thought we would get such intense debate over loop size on cbuzz! :)

It's not the size that matters..

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jomo said:
World's largest loop is currently being erected in Tampa.

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They are putting a loop on SheiKra? Am I the only one who noticed this... because I didn't think that Immelmans counted as loops.

One loop has certainly been neglected:
X's Raven Turn: 185 ft
Now RCDB has it as a 1/2 inversion, but do you want to look at a structural loop, can you consider it one with its successive half-inversion, or do you consider traditional vertical loops only.

oh man where is RIDEMAN when we need him??

SFWoARules - Your pictures are inaccurate, SKC is futher away, and you used the same unit for mesurement on each picture. My little formula is actually a lot closer then I Thought, I found out the length of B&M floorless trains and it made sense that Dominator's loop is the highest from top to bottom. If people counted the space from the grond to the top of the loop, Viper would still be the tallest loop, and this discussion would be pointless. Every picture that I have seen and all the information I have looked at favors Dominator's loop over SKC. 114 feet is a B&M standered loop on a lot of their coasters, It would only make snse that B&M would make Dominator's loop is only two "unit" size bigger. I've noticed that B&M loop hights go up by sevens, for the simple fact of it's two meters. Why 2 meters? for example... 114 feet for kumba and others, then it jumps to 121 for chang and others. Then 128 for medusa(SFMW) then 135 for dominator. So SKC 137 foot loop would be kind of a weird hight to build at for B&M. And if you notice, roller coaster builders usally do a lot of "cookie-cutter" track elements to save on cost. It's a lot easier to make pre-determind sizes of track then custom building every ride differently. I would guess that this is the closing argument, and I wuold also venture to say that this discussion will never be truely over. It was fun though! :)

I actually didn't use the same unit of measurement for both. I drew a rectangle which touched the front and back of the train for each picture. My error would come from assuming that the trains are in the exact same position. *** Edited 12/20/2004 9:28:34 PM UTC by SFWoARules!***

I think it is clearly obvious from the photos presented by SFWoARules that SKC's loop is indeed larger. I don't understand how anyone could possibly conclude otherwise. The SKC photo is taken from farther away, and yet when the two photos are presented side by side the SKC loop appears larger in the photo. The rules of perspective tell us that the object further away has to be larger. It's also quite obvious that these are not cookie cutter loops--just look at the shape.

What's clearly obvious is that you are a SF fanboy who insists upon ignoring FACTS regarding measurements and basing your arguments on optical illusions. The sad part is if SF still owned Geauga Lake, you'd probably be on the side of Dominator, too.

Exactly how is it that you know that the photo of SKC was taken from farther away? Did you personally take both pictures yourself? Rules of perspective would dictate that IF you took pictures of identical-shaped track (i.e. B&M track) and one was farther away, the track itself would appear different sizes. When analyzing the pictures with a good old plastic, see-through ruler, the widths of the square rail are just about identical (2.0mm, not counting the running rails)

The SKC picture is more wide open, which makes it look larger. Dominator, on the other hand, is crowded with buildings and other track that make it look dwarfed. Another thing to look for is the trains - they're both 8 cars long, and hence the same length. However, Dominator's train doesn't take up quite as much of the loop as SKC, implying that Dom has the bigger loop. Granted that this falls into the same fallacy as your observations, but I have the aforementioned measurements to back this up.

Don't forget the classic optical illusion:
>---<
<--->
Which line is larger? The obvious answer is neither - they're the same size. Here you can see it plainly, but in the "real" illusion (yes, I know that these 2 words together is a paradox ;) ) the first like looks larger, because the flares go out, and it's more wide open, whereas the second looks smaller because the flares crowd the line and make it look dwarfed, just like in the above 2 photographs.