Why Geauga Lake Cannot Survive as Part of Cedar Fair

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:32 PM
Even with all the supporters of the point and Maverick, they didnt reach their expections ( GL is doomed ).
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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:36 PM
MiA gets lets through the gates yet no one says "OMFG MiA IS GONNA CLOSE!!!".
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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:58 PM
I think Mr. Kinsel and Mr. Spehan should be smacked upside their ****ing heads! They have made one bad decision after another! Take out the Animals, Remove Mr. Hydes, Remove X-Flight, Remove Steel Venom, Remove Belair, Increase Gate Price, Increase Cotton Candy (From 25 cents to $2.99), Replace ride areas with pasture. Leave only an Empty Beachcomers next to pasture. Plus add to that piss poor conditions inside the park! You mean they can not afford a light bulb for the mens room. It flickers soo bad that the auto flush camodes flush over and over. If Mr. Kinsel and Billy Bob Spehan want to help, then stop taking a huge salary, and put some money back into the ****ing park! DUH!!
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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:01 PM
well there's your first mistake... Know how to spell them correctly then MAYbe you might not get laughed at too hard....
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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:15 PM
Then consider that everything that they removed wasn't adding to the attendance anyway.

Being private or public has nothing to do with it. Cedar Fair doesn't take dump without looking at the ROI, and they're not going to throw money at the problem to fix anything. Six Flags tried that. Why do I have to remind people of that over and over?

By its seasonal nature, and its reputation as an income, not growth, stock (unit), they don't play the quarterly results game. They can't see as how they lose money at least one quarter of the year.

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 12:16 AM
To: GL
From: CF

If you're gonna draw "crowds" like MiA, you'll have to get your COSTS in line with MiA. ;)

Really, if SF had not been sooooo...SF-ish (by which I mean having operations and cleanliness SO out of hand that customers found the place inhospitable - SFWoA *was* one of the bad ones that actually EARN the bad rap), then GL actually stood a chance of being a Tier 2 park in their chain and remaining a perpetual thorn in the side of CP/CF. Now, CF owns the place and they don't want OR need additional competition for their flagship park. If CF can successfully turn GL *back* into a successful local/regional park with operating costs that reflect that status, and offer a VASTLY different experience than what you get at CP...then they'll have done well. GL won't be sold a la SFDL/SFEV/SFEG....CF hasn't sold off a park yet, I *highly* doubt they will anytime soon.
*** Edited 5/31/2007 4:18:00 AM UTC by rollergator***

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 12:39 AM
The removal of all the rides has been justified by arguing that they did not contribute to attendance. If that is the case then the only thing Cedar Fair is accomplishing is decreasing the cost-per-guest, because there is zero draw to the park this summer and I'll eat crow if GL beats 700,000 this year.

I'm yet to hear how removing the two live shows and raising food prices so high that some family's can't afford to eat is making the park any more "family friendly." And even if Cedar Fair doesn't throw money at capital improvements, how are their current actions making the park attractive? Is the company so cheap or so desperate for cash that they had to take away the 25 cent cotton candy? It seems like that was a nice little promotion that makes the park seem attractive to families.

Again, I don't think this ROI concept is clear. The ROI that Cedar Fair makes on Geauga Lake does not necessarily mean that Geauga Lake is better off. Cedar Fair could probably sit on the land and not even open the park in the summer and they'd have made a good investment, given the increased business Cedar Point would be getting and the appreciation of the real-estate.

I'm glad to see Oktoberfest is still on the Calendar this September; but I am dreadfully afraid my favorite tradition might soon come to an end. Every year there are fewer vendors and smaller crowds. We've already cut the season from Memorial Day until Oktoberfest; how long is it going to be before the place shuts down on Labor Day?

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:40 AM
Those KW prices are even better than they appear because the prices include the tax. (at least they did last year). The one exsception to this is the Parkside Cafe.
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Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:33 PM
On the issue of cost, and being "family friendly." Can we really use Holiday World and Kennywood as examples?

Lets compare prices.

2007 Season Pass ($60 difference)
Holiday World: $139.95
Geauga Lake: $79.95
Kennywood: no season pass.

Parking:
Holiday World: Free
Geauga Lake: $10?
Kennywood: free

Lets take a break here. One person would have to go to Geauga Lake six times and pay for parking before you would make up that difference in season pass prices. If you went to Kennywood six times it would cost you $186.

2007 Daily Admission
Holiday World: $37.95
Geauga Lake: $26.95
Kennywood: $31.00

It all kind of comes out a little more even then what you would think now doesn't it? A day at Kennywood is probably going to be the cheapest, but they dont have season passes, and a HW season pass is downright expensive when compared to a GL season pass that in the end after buying food and soft drinks you probably end up a little more even than what it seems as well.

Gonch makes these points all the time. Is the raised admission price OK with you, when you have "free" soda and "free" parking? And is Kennywood's free parking and cheaper food prices OK with you when Kennywood doesn't have a season pass?

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:06 PM

eightdotthree said:
Gonch makes these points all the time. Is the raised admission price OK with you, when you have "free" soda and "free" parking? And is Kennywood's free parking and cheaper food prices OK with you when Kennywood doesn't have a season pass?

Times like this make me so proud. :)

You're exactly right. Depending on how much you visit and exactly what you do at the park - the costs (and value associated with those costs) are very comparable.

And I still think it's funny that the comparisons always lead to KW and HW (and often Knoebels) - those parks are the exceptions, not the rule.


Paul Blackstone said:
The removal of all the rides has been justified by arguing that they did not contribute to attendance. If that is the case then the only thing Cedar Fair is accomplishing is decreasing the cost-per-guest, because there is zero draw to the park this summer and I'll eat crow if GL beats 700,000 this year.

That's only a negative if you use attendance as the measure of success. Truth is, it's probably one of the worst measures - especially of financial success.

So the park removed this and that, but they (like you said) also removed the costs associated with those things too. So what if they only do 600,000 or 500,000 guests this year - as long as the cost drop was greater than the guest spending drop, then they're ahead and in a better place.

I'd rather have a park that does a half million in attendance and makes more money than one that does 750,000 and makes less.

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:24 PM
Heres to the day where HW, KW and Knoebels are the rule :)

Chuck

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 5:19 PM
We wouldn't want that. No one would go out of their way to make the trip to HW or Knoebels if they were the "rule"... and they would end up like Conneaut!

Just hopethe likes of HW, Knoebels, KW never change is all..... :)

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:21 PM
I really think you have to invest in some capital sometime if you want to make this park profitable again. However I really don't think adding large 15 million dollar coasters at this time or in the next few years is what is needed. I feel considering that Cedar Fair could retheme the section of the park that used to have X-Flight and the impulse coaster to a Nick Central/Universe kids section. I assume that they would want to keep the Nick liscense for the former Paramount parks, so you might as well use this at one of your struggling parks to find an identity.

I would think the cost of perhaps adding a disko and a few smaller flat rides would be not that costly considering kinds island did that in one of their off years. I don't think a park of geauga lakes size with 3 wooden coasters and 5 steel coasters can be profitable only drawing 700,000 , let alone 500,000. Ideally you would want to get back to the 1.5 million mark where they were before six flags aquired the sea world side. Building a new waterpark in the old sea world side was not a bad idea, but you need something new to market to families besides that. A new kids section with perhaps some new rides would likely be something to bring in families. Hopefully with the improved operations with Cedar Fair, those people that try it out than will want to come back. New rides and attractions do lure people back to the park, but their will be no sustain attendanc year after year if the overall guest experience or operations are lack luster. Six Flags when they were operating the park acheived great attendance by spending millions of dollars on 5 coasters in 2 years and aquiring the sea world side. But never could maintain it.

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:51 PM
The only money I could see spending would be to upgrade the waterpark more and more and more...

I might even consider spending some money to take out the Boomerang - but then what park in the chain wants or needs one of those, LOL.

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:57 PM
What is this notion about that the park has no draw? By that logic, no one would ever go to Knoebels. I mean, they don't add something every year, so clearly it's doomed, right?
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Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:13 PM
Except Knoebels does add something new every year. :)

The bothersome bit about Geauga Lake is not that they aren't adding something every year but that they are removing something every year.

How many times has the area around Big Dipper been ripped up, changed, or abandoned over the last 15 years? And now there is nothing there except a big empty unsightly wasteland.

I like Geauga Lake but it just seems to be missing that elusive "something special".

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:09 PM
Put a nick zone where the X-Flight/ SteelVenom used to be. Take out Dominator and Thunderhawk and put a camp snoopy their.
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Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:33 PM
How is three kids areas and removing the parks two star coasters going to bring in the guests?
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Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:52 PM
With removing 3 rides for 2007 ( including 2 major ones), and the media downbeat on Geauga Lake for doing so, it's no wonder why the locals think that the park is in financial trouble and on the verge of closing. However, the addition of just one NEW attraction, even a relatively minor one, might have helped offset this, even a little. I'm not even suggesting a coaster. But, a smaller flat ride, unique to Geauga Lake from Cedar Point, would certainly have given it some attention and at least held off the nay-sayers. Sorry, until I see something actually new added back to the ride part of the park (not necessarily a coaster even), I can see why some feel that Geauga might be destined to only be a waterpark someday.

One suggestion I have to possibly help the park's attendance: If Cedar Fair is serious about continuing the Nicktoon license beyond the next four years, why not extend it to Geauga Lake? It would certainly differentiate itself from Cedar Point then. It actually might make it seem more 'family oriented' at that point. Convert the old 'Looney Tunes' area to Nicktoons, and the old Happy Harbor area to Spongebob. As for the old X-Flight area, turn it into a Challenge Park like area with outside the gate that could offer larger go-kart tracks, mini-golf, skycoasters, and other up-charge attractions.

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Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:55 PM
like bumber boats.
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