Which way is up on CP #16
Only 3 Corey? ;)
Have a safe trip to Florida, buddy!
-Mikey
*** This post was edited by olympic10086 on 12/20/2002. ***
*** This post was edited by olympic10086 on 12/20/2002. ***
Ultimate Coaster - This is Cedar Point.. they have to have a high capacity on every ride they have.. During CoasterMania '01 someone stated (Monty Jasper or was it Marcus from Intamin?) that there was a minimum capacity to be met. So I'm saying 3 trains with a launch brake, safety brakes, unload platform, and a load platform.
I'm figuring that the launch brake will have a delay anywhere from 5-10seconds before the launch.. which would give the train from the unload station plenty of time to get to the load platform and start loading folks (since with Millennium they overlap the blocks). By the time the train on the coarse hits the safety brakes, the train in the load station should be moving to the launch brake.. and the train at the unload platform should be moving to the load station... that way the train on the coarse can just roll right into the unload platform, and if they keep up that pace, there will be a great capacity.
(I apologize for my description.. it's the best I could do running off acouple beers!)
I don't think that it is too fast for the CP crews either. I'd figure a 35-40second interval to keep from stacking, which is nothing for CP (Gemini's interval is 23seconds)! If any park can make it happen, it is definitely CP. Hell they managed to get a decent capacity out of an Impulse!
Btw - Thanks Mikey! There is no doubt in my mind that FL will be amazing! I leave in 5days! lol!
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Corey
"I make it a rule never to get involved with possessed people. Well, it's more of a guideline than a rule." - Dr. Pete Venkman/Bill Murray
*** This post was edited by rOLLocOASt on 12/20/2002. ***
MagnumForce said:
Wow you rode Wicked Twister at Coastermania? How did you manage that, it was down all day.
Brent, you know very well that people still "rode' it at Coastermania...
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- John
Support Rob in the Great DDR Challenge!
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
You don't consider 1600pph a high capacity?? Hell, 1000pph is a "decent" capacity, and considering that WT achives that is most impressive. Not every coaster can have Gemini stats.
I've worked on acouple of those rides you've mentioned (they were in your second to last reply until it was deleted), and I know exactly what they are capable of doing. Did you know that Wildcat has a better capacity than any of the DejaVu's around the country?? I think that says something about Cedar Point. They are capacity driven.
Wicked Twister has a 1000pph capacity, and how many times did you get close to that this year?? Even if you were hitting 6-700pph, that still isn't "bad". Better than the other Impulses I've seen, and every DejaVu. Disaster Transport if I remember correctly has a 1200pph capacity (or somewhere around there) when they are running all the "sleds". Thats another decent capacity for the park.
The thing that you have to remember is that Cedar Point is focused on getting high numbers through those turnstiles. Why do you think they run 6trains on Gemini?? To provide a ride that is thrilling and fun for everyone, while keeping the wait time minimal, even on extremely busy Saturdays in August! Also remember, with such a record-breaking ride there is going to be a need for capacity. Cedar Point would be f-ing stupid to NOT to run 3 trains on that ride.
Were you there on 2000 when Millennium Force opened?? I was. Did you see how long the line stretched? On many days IN MAY it went back to the Snake River Falls exit by the turkey-leg stand (forgot the name) and Thunder Canyon's entrance. Sometimes even back to Antiques. They have to have a high capacity on this thing, otherwise it'll be another disaster of a line like that was!
To think Cedar Point wouldn't make sure that there is a decent capacity for #16 is just insane! It'll run 3 trains, probably 20-24ppt, and they'll hit a damn fine capacity.
Also, I'm not a Cedar Point fan-boy. It's a great park for what it is worth, but it is nothing compared to Holiday World and Silver Dollar City. Sure CP has the biggest and some say "best" rides, but rides alone cannot match the friendliness and caring that the great folks at Holiday World and Silver Dollar City show you. They love their jobs and the park that they are at, unlike alot of CP employees who may or may not be hungover from a night out at Louie's.
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Corey
"I make it a rule never to get involved with possessed people. Well, it's more of a guideline than a rule." - Dr. Pete Venkman/Bill Murray
*** This post was edited by rOLLocOASt on 12/21/2002. ***
900-1000 is not that great. Many people would agree with that. I have seen many an arguement over how bad Impulse capacities are. And 900 is even worse. Lets face the facts: Not all of Cedar Point's rides are high capacity, whether you want them to change around the words to make it sound like they are or not. Fact is 1000 isnt that great in the scheme of things. Average is aroun 1300-1500, especially for Cedar Point. Second Fact: Cedar Point has never really had a ride as short as this Dragster one, so we cannot really tell how many trains, and just because it is Cedar Point doesnt mean everything will be high capacity! I will stick with 1 train, 2 maximum.
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
Well, that was a lively discussion...Let's stray back a bit to the orginal topic...sorta
I guess after viewing that very nice little animation clip that DLDude13 and NITROBLASTER created, my dreaming will have some substance, though no longer surprising...
If the animation accurately simulates how the ride will operate...anyone have any input on why "Dragster / CP #16" doesn't (or couldn't) have the same 270 degree spiral on the way UP as it does on the way DOWN?
*** This post was edited by Coaster Cruiser on 12/22/2002. ***
HurricaneGeauga said:
Sure 350+ is awesome, but a 10 second ride doesn't sound too great.
Yes 350+ would be awesome, so imagine how cool this will be at 400+
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www.coasterimage.com
Ultimate Coaster - You just proved yourself wrong!
"Average is aroun(d) 1300-1500, especially for Cedar Point."
How can you say that Cedar Point is not capacity driven when they have those types of numbers as averages? Yeah sure, Gemini can pull in well over 2000people an hour... that is amazing by itself, but it doesn't mean that 13-1500pph is anything but great! Do you realize how many people 1500people really is? That is filling Millennium's queue completely, and the overflows which are under the last overbanked turn! Do you realize that Thunder Canyon has 23 rafts of 12seats per raft?? How is that not capacity driven?!? On busy days I've seen them run 20rafts at once... that my friends is hard work!
Your "short-ride" theory really doesn't work either. Gemini has a 23second interval, and the CCMR has a 21 second interval (or is it 22?), so you can not tell me that those crews wouldn't beable to handle 3 train operation on this new ride. If the train stops in the launch brake for more than 5seconds, there will be plenty of time to load the train that has just advanced into the load station, unload the train that is advancing into the unload station, and then advance them both again before the train on the circuit stacks in the safetys.
Excluding Disney and Universal where they have more than 3train operation, tell me a park that has that extremely high average capacity for their coasters that hit them constistantly........... none. Why else would Cedar Point win the Golden Ticket award for the fastest lines if they weren't capacity driven?? They love getting the highest numbers they can! I've been to every Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Busch, and Paramount park in the nation and I can tell you one thing... The lines at Cedar Point move the fastest (even on busy days), and are the longest. How is that not due to being capacity driven?
I hope you realize where I am coming from, but either way I hope noone is gettin their panties in a twist about it. The new ride will have 3trains and will have a great capacity... When it is announced and has 3 trains, I'll gladly accept your apology . If by some strange twist in fate that it's announced with 2 trains (or god forbid one!), I'll come right out and apologize. Simple as that. But I like to be right, so don't count on it being 2 or 1 trains
Lord Gonchar - I totally agree.. I keep thinking that most people really don't know how tall 400feet really is! If you ride S:TE and look backwards at the highest point of the ride (lol! I almost said top! ) your pretty f-ing high up! Imagine that but farther up and looking straight down through a twist . This thing gets my adrenaline pumping just thinking about it, and its almost 6:30am!
Insomnia sucks.. thanks alot Cedar Point!!
Edit - Just read MDomnis info and it was 23,094 riders in one day on the Magnum. That my friends was a capacity-driven crew! Ahh do I miss those days...
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Corey
"I make it a rule never to get involved with possessed people. Well, it's more of a guideline than a rule." - Dr. Pete Venkman/Bill Murray
*** This post was edited by rOLLocOASt on 12/22/2002. ***
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
Ultimate Coaster - please tell me you are being sarcastic by saying that SFNE has better capacity compared to CP. Are you confising queue size with capacity? I, for one, have experienced SFNE on many occasions and have found it to be one of the most poorly operated parks, capacity-wise, on the face of the earth. I'm sure others will agree. You have to be smoking something good to believe that Superman can come anywhere close to 2,000pph. With 36 passengers per train, that would be 55.5 dispatches per hour (or a dispatch approximately every 1:05). Aside from the fact that a number this high isn't even possible in theory on Superman, the dispatches in my experience at SFNE have NEVER been under 2 minutes and are usually in the neighborhood of 3-4. You also have to realize that gobbling Superman's entire queue in 2 hours is by no means impressive - the queue isn't that big! I bet the same line would be a 45 minute wait on Magnum (approximately 1200 people). I'd venture to bet that Superman at SFNE probably doesn't have 5 hours all summer when they get more than 1,000 riders in an hour.
A "bad" hour on Magnum at CP is 1,400 people. A good hour is in the 1,700-1,800 range. Same goes for Raptor. Gemini beats everyone. Mantis, which is a bad capacity coaster for CP, probably does more riders than S:ROS at SFNE for goodness sake! Millennium Force, which I'll admit doesn't have the greatest capacity design in the world probably gets 1,100-1,200 riders per hour. Not the greatest number in the world, but I'll bet my left nut it's more than Superman gets in its best hour! A Boomerang with a capacity of 1,500? Wow, last I checked wasn't their maximum theoretical capacity about 1,000 riders per hour? Keep on dreaming!
The only thing you said that makes sense is that Nitro has good capacity. Yep, it sure does when they run three trains and hit interval - just like CP does on Magnum, Raptor, Gemini, Millennium Force, Corkscrew, Iron Dragon, Mine Ride sometimes, blah blah blah. 1,300-1,500 probably is about right for CP's average coaster capacity. And you're out to lunch if you think that any park short of Disney comes close to matching that. Multiply 1,300 by 16 and you figure that CP can give about 20,000 rides per hour just on coasters. That doesn't count the other 52 rides and hundreds of attractions in the park.
As for the new ride, I believe it will have 2 trains - most likely 3. It will not have capacity like Gemini, but its capacity will probably be in the same range, or possibly better than Millennium Force. I'm going to guess that there will be three 20 passenger trains (maybe only 16) and a dispatch interval of around 45 seconds. That is 80 dispatches per hour and a capacity of 1,600 riders per hour. If it is only a 16 passenger train, that number would be 1280. No it isn't Gemini, but it's another ride in CP's arsenal that has capacity exceeding probably 85% of the coasters in operation around the country.
-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
2,130,694 riders for the season
23,094 in one day
*** This post was edited by MDOmnis on 12/22/2002. ***
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Favorite Coasters:
1)MF 2)Raging Bull 3) Magnum XL-200 4)Rock N' Roller Coaster 5)Raptor
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
rOLLocOASt said:
Also, I'm not a Cedar Point fan-boy. It's a great park for what it is worth, but it is nothing compared to Holiday World and Silver Dollar City. Sure CP has the biggest and some say "best" rides, but rides alone cannot match the friendliness and caring that the great folks at Holiday World and Silver Dollar City show you.
Wow, that was well-said! I guess now I owe YOU the cookie, huh? CP is fantastic at what it is...a THRILL park that operates on the capacity-first mentality. That's what I *do* love about CP. There are many here (too many, IMHO) that cannot see things clearly, and feel that THEIR homepark is an all-or-nothing place, where EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect *as is*, and that ANY complaints are automatically unjustified. There are a fair amount of CP fan-boys here, and a few Knotts/SFMM fan-boys. Bottom line is, there's NO such place as a perfect park, CP or anyplace else....in the REAL world, every park has its pluses AND minuses....
...now back to your regularly-scheduled discussion of #16, a coaster that will be short in duration but LONG on thrills...;)
rollergator said:
rOLLocOASt said:
Also, I'm not a Cedar Point fan-boy. It's a great park for what it is worth, but it is nothing compared to Holiday World and Silver Dollar City. Sure CP has the biggest and some say "best" rides, but rides alone cannot match the friendliness and caring that the great folks at Holiday World and Silver Dollar City show you.
Wow, that was well-said! I guess now I owe YOU the cookie, huh? CP is fantastic at what it is...a THRILL park that operates on the capacity-first mentality. That's what I *do* love about CP. There are many here (too many, IMHO) that cannot see things clearly, and feel that THEIR homepark is an all-or-nothing place, where EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect *as is*, and that ANY complaints are automatically unjustified. There are a fair amount of CP fan-boys here, and a few Knotts/SFMM fan-boys. Bottom line is, there's NO such place as a perfect park, CP or anyplace else....in the REAL world, every park has its pluses AND minuses....
...now back to your regularly-scheduled discussion of #16, a coaster that will be short in duration but LONG on thrills...
I sure hope youre not reffering to me here because I do not that my home park is perfect. SFNE has decent capacity (contrary to popular belief) and has good rides, but I think they could use a major cleanup. The park looks like crap!
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
Ultimate Coaster - thanks for correcting yourself, but you are still wrong! Superman has never and will never achieve 1,800 riders in an hour. I won't claim to have any inside info on that, but I can tell you that 1,800 is STILL probably greater than the maximum theoretical capacity for the ride because it would involve 50 dispatches of full trains per hour - an interval of 1:12. This probably hasn't happened once in the ride's three years of operation, let alone consistently at Six Flags New England. A CP crew couldn't get those numbers on Superman, because they aren't possible!
As for Magnum, I can claim to have some knowledge on that one and I can tell you that the maximum capacity (theoretical) is 1,944 riders per hour according to the operations manual. Yes, that number is approached occasionally, and maybe even exceeded occasionally, but that is only because of the difference in the number of people on the platform when the turnstyle is read (i.e. empty at the first reading, packed at the second reading). Average hours on Magnum are 1,600 per hour. On our best day in 2001, we averaged about 1,743 per hour - that was a day when virtually every train was packed, every interval was hit, and there were no set ups.
As for your argument of SFNE being a quality park, I point to the following statement:
"On numerous days the queue is full and on numerous days it gobbles it up in around 45 minutes-2 hours, depending on how many trains they run."
So you're telling me it can take anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours to get through a full Superman queue? What the hell is that!? Shouldn't you be able to narrow it down a little more? "It depends on the number of trains," you say. Isn't running one train with a 45 or more minute wait kind of sad for a park with "high capacity"?
I could walk into a full queue on Magnum at any time, any day, and because of consistent three train operation and a crew being consistent in hitting interval, be on the ride in between 45 minutes-1 hour every time!
I'd go as far as to say Wicked Twister probably beats Superman in hourly numbers on many occasions throughout the summer. Is WT a great capacity coaster? No. But the crew works hard and dispatches the train consistently. You know that - you worked there! Or was that just a quote from a WT ride op in your sig? Not sure. :) Wicked Twister's crew did about as good as they could considering the ride inherently doesn't have the greatest capacity. Many times, they had the train ready to go before the auto-spiel was done.
Number 16, barring any technical issues will operate the same way - consistently. There will be an interval - and it will be achieved. There will be an hourly capacity and the crew will come within 100-200 people of their previous hour in most cases. None of this, "45 minute-2 hour" nonsense!
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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
*** This post was edited by MDOmnis on 12/22/2002. ***
UC, you haven't been around long enough to gain any sort of rep....nope, you personally haven't even created a blip on the *radar screen of low flying fan-boys* in the MoJ's super-secret control room....well, not as secret anymore, lol. The "hardcore" have never seen so much as a single bad incident EVER at their particular "park of choice", and virtually every park and region has some. Hang out for a few years here, you'll get to know "the regulars", and some of the *highly irregular*...those people really need to get some bran, errr....OATS, in their diets...
EVERY park has its pluses and minuses....every one...the *trick* is to make the most of every visit to ANY park, and take care of the analysis later on....;)
Okay, it seems as if MDO wants to keep this going, so I'll follow suit. I have been to SFNE on occasions where Superman has gotton many more riders per hour than you would think. And Wicked Twister getting more people through per hour? That is nonsense, and I would have expected a better comparison than that. The 45-2 hours was a typo. It is 45min-1 hour. You also havent been to SFNE that much if you think Superman is as bad as you say it is. IMO, you're talking just like a "hardcore fanboy" who NEVER sees anything wrong with his park of choice, as RollerGator put so simply. Stop taking SFNE and trashing it because you can't stand to admit that your park has had, does have, and will have problems. I'd be the first to say it, trust me, that SFNE has problems. The park needs to be cleaner. The staff needs to be more friendly. But Cedar Point has its share of problems too. Wicked Twister, no matter how you put it, has bad capacity. It's an Impulse, a one train ride. It is going to have problems. Also, just because this is Cedar Point, and according to you, a "Park that has high capacity for most of their rides", doesnt mean every ride will. Once again, 1-2 trains. And stop being biased towards Cedar Point because you worked there! Not all SF parks are bad, ya know!
By the way, the Wicked Twister sig is a qoute. I never worked at Cedar Point.
PLEASE CEDAR POINT GET THIS TESTING GOING SO THESE STUPID FIGHTS CAN STOP!!!!
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"Launching in 1,2,3..2..1"
-Wicked Twister Ride Op.
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