What's going on with Cedar Fair?

OK, as far as KBF is concerned. Since I have move to Las Vegas, I seen more ads for CP than KBF. I've seen one ad for CP and nothing for KBF. Perhaps, KBF needs to asvertise a little more. I could be stated however, that Las Vegas is further out than KBF would like to advertise. However, there are nearly 1.8 million people out here without any kind of amusement park since Wet and Wild has torn down.

Maybe CP could open up a water park out in Henderson.

The GP doesn't want to go to parks just for the rides anymore they want entertainment to. CF parks have to start bringing in new entertainment every year more than the lame laser light shows. They need to build ampitheaters and start bringing in some big name bands like SF and Hershey does. They also have to expand their waterparks. SFNE is my home park and every year they keep adding to Hurricane Harbor which is defenitely increasing attendence especially with the summers getting hotter. I know I won't stand inline for 2hrs in 100 degree temps to get on a ride.

As a metro Detroiter, and one who hasn't been back to CP since early June, I'm not surprised at the low attendance this year. Even Great Wolf in Sandusky reported much lower figures and have blamed it mostly on the metro Detroit market.

Unemployment here is higher than anywhere else in the US right now, and it's going to get worse now that Ford is moving directly into firings of white collar workers because early retirement and buyouts aren't cutting enough people.

Add to that the much higher gas prices, and construction on I-75, 280 and the Edison Bridge. That alone is enough to keep my trips down this year, even with my season pass.

The only way to take advantage of Soak City during this much warmer summer is to either spend the night so you can take advantage of the two day Ride and Slide, or pay the extra $28 on top of the regular park admission. No more partial hours in SC at cheaper prices. Not to mention Soak City pales in comparison to other water parks. If I want to visit a waterpark, I'm going to MiA.

Now add in the frustration many guests had last year with the MF seatbelt issues and TTD downtime. Yes, many people, including my coaster buddy, TheRealCP, can still have an enjoyable time without riding those two coasters, but there were a lot of people who were rudely turned away, some who fit in the test seat and then after waiting 1-2 hours couldn't fit into the train seats. These are people who were able to ride since MF opened and were suddenly told "sorry".

Why would they spend the money for gas, deal with the hassles of contruction, know they can't ride MF, and are unsure of whether TTD is going to be up or not to go to CP? It doesn't matter that TTD has less downtime this year. It doesn't matter that CP has lessened the seatbelt restrictions. These are not advertised and people are still going to reflect on last year's experience.

Economy, construction, feeling like you are getting less for the money...these all add up. Considering a family of 4 will spend at least $190 just for admission and parking for one day, plus gas, plus food in the park...and $3 for a bottle of water...is it any wonder attendance is down?

You touched on a major issue for me, and that's the perception of value. This is certainly an issue at Cedar Point. For the first time in six years, I'm not sure if I'll stay on-property for closing weekend. Why? Because I don't perceive enough value. I doubt I'm alone, because I know Lighthouse Point wasn't 100% booked last year the way it was in previous years.

The same thing came up on PointBuzz regarding food, and of course, the $3 sodas/bottled water. I'm still in awe that they're sticking to that price this year. Yeah, you might get them to pay it this year, but you can't pretend it doesn't leave a lasting impression on your guests when they think about whether or not they'll come back next time.

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I know Lighthouse Point wasn't 100% booked last year the way it was in previous years.

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I think this is partly because last year you couldn't book only Saturday---you had to book two nights to get into LP during Halloweekends. This appears to be true this year, too.

With younger kids, Friday night really doesn't do much for us, and Saturday doesn't start until noon---it's hard to justify paying another $200 for a few hours' time with the half-dozen kid-friendly attractions when you can leave home at a reasonable hour on Saturday morning and still make Joe Cool. In fact, last year we stayed at BE and *still* decided that, until our kids are both older (and taller) we'd skip Friday HW and just go Sat/Sun instead.

But, I do agree with the value perception. It ocurred to me that, this year, I was spending more on a counter service meal for my family of two adults and two kids at Cedar Point than the typical (and frankly much better) CS meal at Walt Disney World cost us. Admission is affordable in comparison, but other CP costs are equivalent to the Mouse House, and in some cases can be more. *** Edited 8/14/2005 6:10:14 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

hey CP lady, has cedar fair responded to the apparent lack of attendance from Detroit by adding or removing commercials/billboards? I went to OU (it sucks I know) and spent most of my weekends in Detroit and remember seeing lots of commercials and signs for the park. I moved to Texas and haven't been back this year. I miss the friendly atmosphere after leaving Astroworld and hearing there was a riot on the other side of the park (July 4th).

Also, to the post on the first page asking when you will need a passport to go between the U.S. and Canada, the date was already announced and I think it was Sept. of 2006 or 2007.

From what I have heard OOF's attendance is up from last year whereas WOF's attendance is flat with little to no change. The good news about the parks is that WOF Village has been received very well and is at capacity almost every weekend and the RV portion is pretty full during the week as well. I think it is a crime that they won't have the RV park open this fall and after the park has closed for the season as I know that the CHIEF fans would love to use it on football Sundays as it is the closest RV park to the stadium.

Actually, WoF was down 11% as of the quarter.

They didn't break out the waterparks separately on the conference call, but said total waterpark attendance was up 8% with most of that increase coming from CF's Soak City and OoF.

-'Playa

It seems as we cannot win here in Missouri. Either it is too wet and the attendance is down at OOF or it's hot and then WOF attendance is down.

I predict that next year will be better. :)

You're betting AGAINST global warming, Swoosh? The over/under on that must be ridiculous! ;)

gator, betting on hotter AND wetter for the foreseeable future...and beyond! LOL!
*** Edited 8/15/2005 1:31:46 AM UTC by rollergator***

'Playa, did they give actual figures for all the parks in the conference call? It would be nice if they would give a transcript of that as opposed to the information-poor PR they have on the CF site.

Bill, you so silly ;) you know what I meant.

rolocated, since I don't watch much network TV, it's hard to say whether CP is advertising here as much. I know last year I heard a CP radio commercial at least 2 times a week, but haven't heard one at all since June.

Last year I also recall getting discount coupons with our Value Pak at least once a month, and again, haven't seen one of those yet this year either.

Advertisments here in MO are sort of interesting. You see SF commercials all the time and they are continually giving away the gate with buy one ticket bring a thug free promotions (no joke) whereas you barely see a WOF or SDC/CC commercial. Whenever there is a new festival kicking off at SDC there will be something to announce it on the news, but few to no commercials or even discounts. The WOF commecials this year leave a lot to be desired, but then again they didn't add anything that could be marketed very well. Also while talking about WOF's commercials, they seem to be put together by someone on crack or a person with ADD (no offense to anyone with that) as they jump around so much it is hard to focus on what the heck they are talking about.

When it all said and done though, they had the best marketing for last year's Halloweekends and if they can do that again this year, attendance will pick up once again this fall. That and the fact they are adding a new haunt DOMINION OF THE DEAD and a new show SLASH.

i still don't understand why parks are charging so much for games now-a-days...

especially the "water race" and wack-a-mole type games...

why are many parks charging $2-$3 for these games? They always seem to be struggling finding the 3 people or so to start the game... why not make it $1.00 and watch the seats fill up quick, like the old days? If you have 10 people play at $1.00, thats still more than 3 people at $3.00 for one game. And then there are the "guess your weight/age/etc." games, i see them as much as $5.00.

Just one example of "perception of value" many are talking about... i could go on but i'm tired right now.

-- alan j

SFDL_Dude, that's an *excellent* point ... Kennywood's games are in the $1.00 range for just about everything in the park, and there's no need for annoying announcers and loud speakers that are more used for cross-park conversations between employees than to interact with guests, people line up on their own. $3 for a game is absolutely ridiculous - you can't tell me no one can see that you make more by having 200 people play at $1 than 20 at $3?

I've got some CP issues myself, but they'll be coming in my trip report on this weekend in the next day or two ...

As of today Cedar Point has discontinued FreeWay stamps and ride again passes for inconvenienced guests.

Reason? Budget cuts.

Rest assured the cost of games and soft drinks is not unique to Cedar Fair.

I saw the same at PKD last weekend, yet I saw many people carrying around huge plastic bags filled with stuffed whatever. I can only wonder how much dough they dropped to amass that much fluff. And the large drinks there were $3.05 (compared to 2.95 for the small[?]}, except for the ones that were $3.10 at some stands and $2.89 at others. Figure that one out.

Also, when it comes down to business, don't rely too much on straight attendance figures. What's the big deal if a park brags about a 10-15 percent increase in attendance when most of that comes from the 9th or 10th visit from a person holding a season pass that cost 60 bucks? That brings little extra money into the park. Wait and see how much of a dividend SF starts paying this year and next.

^That's a good point about the season passes as we (Missy and I) did not spend a penny when we went to Dorney Park. They were not charging to park and we used our WOF pass to get in. We don't play games, were not hungry and couldn't find any souvenir that we couldn't live without (actually a pretty poor selection if you ask me). I wonder if that's the same with other parks in chains.

-D

from what im hearing CP isnt worrying because of their next addition. Im hearing a lot of people say construction will start at the end of the 2005 season for a ride that wont even open until 2007...
ive also heard though attendence is down, season pass sales are amazingly high. go to a downtown cleveland garage and ull catch at least 20passes a garage

Swoosh: Yeah, they broke out all the parks. MiA was up 15%, DP up 10%, everybody else down 4-6% except WoF, which was down 11%.

I guess Spinning Dragons is a tough act to follow. Did they promote the new foam ball thingie much?

-'Playa