What's going on with Cedar Fair?
I went back in June up there, got in at 6:00am (yeah its early...but I won my way in from a radio stations live broadcast). From the early entrance time of 6, I got to swim in the new waterpark until 10 then got to go into the park for the rest of the day. My and my siblings had all the coasters done within 3 hours. and then we were just walking around cuz we were bored...so we ended up going back to the water park until it closed (and not to mention i stayed at the old water park b/c the new one was packed shoulder to shoulder.) and after that we left.
I'm not sure if it's just me, but It seems that CP and GL are doing nothing to try and keep guests in the park. The parks have lost their special spark they use to have and it just seems they want to get you in, take your money and kick you back out at closing time. Also I think i should mention that the "BIG WIGS" of GL were out and about with their clipboards interviewing the older people. Seeing that, I find it as very biased decision. Sure older people have gripes and complaints along with praises, but so do us younger people.
So for CP to start actually getting customer satisfaction back up along with revenues, they need to step back, stop playing in the roller coaster game for a bit, and look at building a real family oriented park...not a Peanuts park. So for now, I will go to GL one more time this year just for the Oktober fest, but I would rather drive 2 hours to Kennywood where the atmosphere seems to be much more better than the two CF parks I have mentioned.
And sorry for this long reply....but i just needed to rant cuz i havent in a while.
CP Boy said:
Sure the rides are good, but a 2 hour wait for a 2 minuted ride on MF is really bad.
And then at GL...
My and my siblings had all the coasters done within 3 hours.
So uhhhhh, what upsets you? Long waits or the fact you didn't have to wait? You seem to have complaints about BOTH.
so we ended up going back to the water park until it closed (and not to mention i stayed at the old water park b/c the new one was packed shoulder to shoulder.) and after that we left.I'm not sure if it's just me, but It seems that CP and GL are doing nothing to try and keep guests in the park.
But somehow, someway, you still stayed most of the day! Again....huh?
Also I think i should mention that the "BIG WIGS" of GL were out and about with their clipboards interviewing the older people. Seeing that, I find it as very biased decision. Sure older people have gripes and complaints along with praises, but so do us younger people.
I'm not trying to beat up on you here...but they wanna know what makes paying customers tick. It just so happened you got in for free.
Even if they did ask you, wouldn't you only confuse them? Case in point...
So for CP to start actually getting customer satisfaction back up along with revenues, they need to step back, stop playing in the roller coaster game for a bit, and look at building a real family oriented park...not a Peanuts park.
Okay, no more rollercoasters, no more 'Peanuts' (kiddie) rides, they're already building more waterpark...seriously, what's your advice? Or should they be asking you?
So for now, I will go to GL one more time this year just for the Oktober fest
After all, they're still getting your 'less more better' repeat business, no?
-CO
(Who still says...huh?)
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
One thing I think CP needs to do is sell itself more based on the fact that it's more than an amusement park. They're working on catching the imaginations of families and the thrill seekers already know them - but what about a focus on adults? I think something akin to Pleasure Island would help and a marketing campaign that really stresses the "destination" instead of the park. Just the other day my mother said "I think I'd be incredibly bored at Cedar Point" She hasn't been in 25 yrs.
GL - I maintain that the previous owners of this property so badly tarnished it's image that it will be another 2-3 years before CF is able to fully work its magic. Word of mouth is helping but that still takes time. The waterpark is nice, but the place needs a signature ride. I think GL is really on it's way to being something special.
Geauga Lake put all its marbles in the water park. It comes as no suprise that the attendance didn't pick up until after the waterpark opened. But, if you harken back to the winter there were some knuckle-head decisions being made that didn't exactly warm the hearts of Northeastern Ohioans. I said it would hurt back then and I think it has. And, it was completely stupid. The blame can only go to the top.
As for Cedar Point. I'm not sure it can be called simply a regional park anymore. I think it is a hybrid and, as such, is going to be affected more by the economy than others. The comments made about the auto industry and gas prices make matters even worse.
There is no easy answer. But, Cedar Fair cannot simply blame weather. It is time to look in the mirror and take a good, hard look.
While my gut is that this entire post is an over-reaction to one quarterly statement...I can't help but think that the admission prices will soon favor the smaller and cheaper parks. There is a lot to be said about paying $45 to spend your day waiting in line (of course this does not seem to have hurt PKI yet?). Which leads me into a whole other line of thought about the probabilities of success for nationalizing a regional park in an area with moody weather and a shrinking population/economic base (but that is for another thread).
Part of HW’s charm, for me (besides my wood bias), is that I never have to wait in line too long. As they grow, I may not find myself as willing to come back IF 1-2 hour waits become the norm!
P.S. Anybody have specifics as to what is wrong with CP's operations? I see a lot of generalizations about "disappointment," but I'm not sure what it is that have people upset this side of the MF belt issue...? Are rides broken down? Food stands not open? One-train operations? Is it dirty? Do they have any SFMM-type entertainment in the Midway (you know the UFC fight stuff)? :-)
Specifics would help us Westerners understand...
Earlier this season, MF's crew lacked that certain hustle, and combined with the silly operations procedures in effect, meant *horrible* dispatch times. To be fair, both the crew and the procedures have gotten better, so I view this as evidence the park doing the right thing.
People That Know (tm) complain about Magnum's operational policies, but they still seem to hit interval or get very very close so I don't see the issue. However, the auto-spiel is both soul-sucking and ineffective.
Blue streak consistently stacks.
Gemini has a new computer that now only allows four trains rather than six, and word on the street is that they *still* stack from time to time, which just doesn't seem possible.
At the beginning of the season, most rides had an absolutely-no-loose-articles policy, even when it wasn't really necessary. Now, almost any ride allows you to leave things on the platform. Neither are as good for crowd flow as prior years' ride-specific solutions.
Woodstock added these ridiculous plexiglas covers to the seat buckles, so the op has to personally unbuckle the entire train with a key-like thing. Yes, it's a ride in Camp Snoopy, but no, kids under 48" can't ride it alone, so this seemed stupid. On the bright side, one operator earned herself a compliment card at Park Ops for being able to unbuckle the train faster than I would have thought humanly possible.
Corkscrew added go/no-go belts to the over the shoulder harnesses in such a way that the guests (not the ops) have to verify that they are buckled, making them mostly useless.
I suppose others can come up with other examples. And, when you look at it, these are mostly stupid things to complain about---not quite Disney fanboy-esque, but very close.
On the plus side, there are signs that the park is working to improve operations. The Woodstock and MF crews are examples---they've clearly gotten better as the season has gone on, despite operations policies that aren't favorable. Magnum, Raptor, and Iron Dragon crews have been pumping trains through as they always do, year-in and year-out. The Mean Streak crew seems to be better at hitting interval this year. Most suprisingly, the Mantis crew is avoiding the endemic stacking of the post-belt era.
Food service: Others have complained about stands not being open, but I haven't seen that much. I've also learned to avoid any food stand with a line of more than 1-2 people, so I no longer know whether or not the poor counter service is typical. I had one of the worst restaurant experiences of my life in a half-empty Breakwater for dinner in July. Horrid, horrid service. Food quality in Midway market continues to deteriorate. Coasters still handles crowds well. We're in the minority, but we also still enjoy Johnny Rockets. Famous Dave's is great. Donut Time is a bit steep, but good.
My two big complaints are both customer service oriented. The first concerns the ops---they work hard at capacity, but it seems to me that they view guests at best as pieces of meat to move in and out of trains as fast as possible. A lot of the guest/employee interaction that used to happen all the time (and still does at places like Disney) seems to be missing. Part of this is the auto-speils, but there are other examples. One of the things I notice is that entrance ops barely make eye contact, let alone smile.
My second concern is only second-hand, but I hear it from a lot of people. If you have a complaint--even a legitimate one--the park's response can be paraphrased as "well, we do things the way we do them because we've been doing them that way forever, and we know what we're doing, so tough noogies to you." I don't mind if the answer is, eventually, tough noogies, but you could at least give the impression that you're sorry that the noogies are tough, and that you'll try to tenderize them as much as possible.
As for CP operations, it is mostly cost cutting that is hurting in things like staffing. Some food stands close early or never open, some coasters have smaller staffs which leads to stacking, etc. The rides all work fine, the park is clean and the crowd is nice.
CP is still a great park with safe rides, a clean environment, excellent security and very well behaved crowds. But, they have lost that feeling that they used to have that they do anything in their power to show you a good time. I think it is cost cutting, they have lost some of their panache, and I hope they get it back.
I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
Just the other day my mother said "I think I'd be incredibly bored at Cedar Point" She hasn't been in 25 yrs.
I took my in-laws to CP for two days this summer. My MIL, in particular, likes her feet planted firmly on the ground, drives the speed limit, and is just not someone you'd imagine enjoying adrenaline rushes. They whole family, including mom, had a much better time than I expected. A lot of that was due to the water park, but still.
And, I will continue to harken back to the quality of potential employees. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they are hiring people into positions that would not have even been considered five years ago.
The learning curve for crews may be stretching some which might account for a slow start to the season and then things picking up. I'd also be curious to know what the retention rate is from season to season and if that has any sort of significant drop in the past couple of years.
Even with the bonus, wages are not great and there are plenty of competitors out there for these seasonal kids. The amusement park business as a whole has not done much to address this in the past decade or so. The hourly bonus that depended upon completion of a contract boosted recruiting numbers but I'm not sure that is still the case today. It may be time to look outside the box.
Can you imagine what the park would be like if it weren't for the 1,000 plus foreign workers? Is that resource going to be there forever? What happens when that dries up?
Big challenges lie ahead. And, for goodness sakes...tear down Cedars/Gold and build some more dorms you'd be willing to put your own kids in! Make the living arrangements as much of a draw to the kids as the excitement of working for the park. I wouldn't send my son to work there if there weren't assurances he wouldn't be living in those conditions.
Magnum's operational changes don't look like they seem to have affected day to day operations, but talking with some employees I get a very different picture. Read how they changed Magnum's operations in the first link above. With these changes, catching something as the train leaves the station and calling a hold is much more difficult which leads to more operational write-ups, which leads to crew members either being fired or transfered off the ride.
The DOR is a form filled out by leadership on the rides which show exactly when and why the ride went down for that day. Last year we would maybe have 3-4 a day (many not operational, but guest illness and such), and many days in a row with no operationals. This year that paper is 1/2-3/4 full each day because of the ride operators' inability to catch things because of their horrible vantage point behind the station pillars.
Don't even get me started on the 2.5 minute long autospiel that is never completely heard becuase of the 50 second time interval for it to play...
I wouldn't be suprised to see a Castaway Bay find its way to Dorney.
Hear me out.
Where would you put it?
By Breakers, gutting Challenge Park and some of the Breakers parking lot?
Pro: Easy access to the captive audience staying at HB, Sandcastle & the RV, Lighthouse Point campground.
Con: It wouldn't be feasible for the park's day guests, who would not be able to get back to the parking lot through the closed park and be at the mercy of the peninsual shuttle.
By the front of the park (or marina) and gut the front park of the parking lot?
Pro: Great location like Citywalk at Universal Orlando in that day guests will see it on the way in -- and out (when it's likely to get some play).
Con: The folks with the disposable income to burn at HB, Sandcastle, etc. may never see the park's front entrance and know it's out there and access would also have to be by the shuttle.
More can definitely be done at the peninsula. That would be a tricky one though.
1) I'm saying that is rediculous to wait 2 hours for a 2 minutes ride on MF or any other coaster.
2)No I'm not upset that I had the coasters done in 3 hours, but you do expect a little wait like 15-20 minutes...WALK ON gets pretty boring. Yes its nice, but boring.
3)Yeah I stayed in the park b/c I really didnt feel like driving an hour back home yet. Cuz when ya work 3rd shift and sleep during the day, you actually wanna stay out in the sun as long as you can. Cuz usually when you wake up you only get a few hours of sunlight....not enough to even try to get a tan!
4)I am usually a paying customer, but it did just so happen that I did get in FREE, but i had to win my way in! And people who do get in free also should be able to voice their opinions..and no I wouldnt confuse them!
5)To me a family oriented park is one that has rides that the WHOLE FAMILY can ride together. And since Sixflags took over and now CF, CF has made no efforts to put the family rides back in, such as a Tilt-a-whirl, scrambler and so on. The good old fashioned rides. The ones that GL use to have before that park got messed up.
6)And as for Oktoberfest, I dont pay for it. That something my parents have paid for, for the past 7 years. Its their little German gift to us kids.
AND IF I MAY STATE...when I'm in the park I try to spend as little money as possible, b/c it is ludicris for them to charge 3 bux for a 20oz bottle of water, when I know for a fact that they pay no more than .53/bottle. And they probably get them cheaper since they buy in huge quantity.
-'Playa
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Knott's PR department has gone to sh*t after GhostRider and Supreme Scream's installations. I don't know if the entire staff was replaced, but the park is just not as aggressive as it used to be in the years preceding 1999 when it comes to marketing and advertisements.
Quite true! I rarely recalled seeing commercials for Xcelerator, Revolution, Rip Tide, and any of the Camp Snoopy additions, only for Haunt. The park does seem to be getting more aggressive now as I see a lot of commercials for Silver Bullet, another set for the water park, and a general park commercial featuring thrill rides.
Still, I went on a recent Thursday in July and the park was pretty empty. Silver Bullet wasn't more than a 5-10 min wait. I supposed everyone could have been at the waterpark.
I think Both Knotts and SFMM are hurting for customers. All summer both parks have had commericals for lower admissions [SFMM is $24.99!] in a plee to get more people to visit.
Or perhaps the most obviousl answer is that this is Disney's year and the 50th celebration is overshadowing the other parks.
I have L.A. stations on Sat., and I've seen loads of Knott's commercials. I love the ones for SB! But I've seen all 3 that you mention.
Perhaps it is Disneyland's year afterall.
As for the Tilt-A-Whirl...Six Flags sent that one to Wyandot Lake, the only "new" adult ride that park has received since 1986, and 'we' had to give up the Rock-O-Plane to get it. So don't expect that Tilt to return to Geauga Lake. I could see them buying a new one some day, but not until the waterpark is finished and the attendance is looking better.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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