The wheels on the inside cause what is known as "hunting". This causes the wheels to move around more underneath the car carriage and causes the shakiness. B&M and intamin cars have outer side friction wheels, so they generally run smoother.
I also think a bad transition is one that has too much speed for a certain element or is generally too tight which causes pain or blackout (3rd loop on shockwave SFGAm). overall IMO bad transitions can come if the ride just doesn't "flow" ------------------ I am one. I am Turbo.
PT300: Point me to where, exactly, anyone calls the Big One "smooth" in those trip reports. The first calls the ride fun, but does not mention smoothness. The second actually points out the brutality of the first drop. So, what are you talking about??
I have noticed that on some coasters, for some reason, the transitions get worse as the ride slows down. Maybe it's just a perceptual thing. Flight of Fear (which I haven't ridden since they removed the horsecollars) is a prime example. The first time I rode it, it felt pretty seamless & smooth (really!), but when I rode it on another trip to PKD, it felt like the beat-em-up ride that people have been describing. I have been on a similar Premier ride (Joker's jinx at SF:America) since they removed the horsecollars, and it was pretty fun.
If anyone wants an example of a coaster with horrible transitions that also demonstrates my point about slow speed magnifying the effects of bad transitions, I nominate Drachen Fire, an early-90's Arrow that used to be at BGW.
To answer the question "what makes bad transitions," one need look no further than PKD's ANACONDA. What were Arrow Dynamics engineers thinking? It's one of the most awkward coasters I've ever ridden. Funny, though, it seems oddly at home amongst the other PKD coasters (except Volcano of course)......
Lord Gonchar dared say Apollo's Chariot was girlie. I don't think so. Anyone who doubts the sheer fluidity of one of B&M's most "natural wonders" needs to re-evaluate! This is the BEST coaster in the south. Period. Sheer perfection, AC is. *** This post was edited by ophthodoc 5/6/2003 12:24:22 AM ***
No, the B&M hypers disappointed me on both counts. There's no force. I coined the term "girlie coaster" to piss off my wife and friend who visit park with me and happen to love those two rides. They seem to be designed to be big, scary looking machines, but ride like pussycats. This lets your average GP teenage girl (no offense ladies) feel like they accomplished something by riding the big, tall ride and not being terrified. I'll give you AC being better than Nitro, but still not a great ride - at least in what I look for. (which is odd, because if you asked, I'd say speed and airtime. Those rides have both, just not the right kind)
The classic debate among enthusiasts seems to be steel vs wood. The ugly truth for me is that I like the middle road. For me that means steel with some force (not to be confused with roughness) or very smooth wood. Those are the rides I tend to enjoy the most.
coasterdude318 said: So, what are you talking about??
Well, besides the mention of the brutal first drop in the second report, where do you find any mention of it being a boring, rough ride? Greg rode it nine times in one day. If the ride is so bad (or rough), who would ever ride something that many times? I usually don't ride smooth rides that many times in one day!
Also, Sean mentioned the first drop being brutal, but he also said:
It’s a shame that I heard some enthusiasts complain about how boring they thought the coaster was because I found a lot of joy from riding this coaster.
AA....*Hunting* is when the guide wheels SHUFFLE from side to side in an effort to find *consistent* contact with the side rails....spring-loading those side-friction rails would go a LONG way towards reducing that problem...(incidentally, the second hill on Sonny, this was probably as noticeable as ANY coaster ever)...
But, my two cents' worth....bad BANKING of track, that's what causes MOST of the bad transitions IMO... ------------------ "Like most problems in life, it's nothing that can't be solved with a little bending"...Bender, Futurama
I'm with rollergator here. If you have been on the Shockwave at SFGAm, whenever you hit transitions going into the mid-course breaks, you know your head it going to plant itself into the right side of your OTSR......
Now it is my opinion that computer or no computer, if I was looking at this on paper, I would KNOW it was a bad transitions. Its when the track goes from a bank into the mid-course, its just throws the train upright throwing your head into the restraint.
I somewhat agree with Lord Gonchar about Apollo's Chariot. The first time I rode it, I was left wanting more. Granted, the ride has grown on me over the last couple of years. That's mostly due to the ejector air that I found sitting in the very back on the first drop. Still, while it (and Nitro, which I like just as much for different reasons) is a good coaster, it certainly doesn't rival most other hypers that I've ridden, and quite frankly pales in comparison to it's neighbor across the park, Alpengeist. In my opinion, of course.
PT300: What I said was "I have never heard anyone call The Big One smooth." I never said "Everyone thinks The Big one is boring and rough" either. Nobody in either trip report said that, so I continue to stand by what I said. And I also continue to stand by the fact that the TR's you pointed out do nothing toward proving the "smoothness" of the ride.
-Nate *** This post was edited by coasterdude318 5/6/2003 2:13:30 PM ***
Dude, how can you call Apollo's Chariot the best coaster in the south? If that and Taxi Jam are the only 2 you have ridden, than I could agree with you. AC, or any B&M hyper for that matter is just a 200 ft(not even that for AC) kiddie ride. AC has absolutely no positive G's, no laterals, and very minimal air. Even if it is smooth, it is so tame that it wouldn't matter if it was or not. If that is thrilling to you, then you really need to get on a good coaster in the south, like Grizzly, which is miles better than AC.
Sorry I got off topic, so about transitions, Arrow doesn't have bad transitions, it just doesn't have any at all. "Transition, whats that?" But bad transitions can be good on woodies...
------------------ Save LeSourdesville Lake!!! It was the best park ever!!!
The *real* Best Coaster in the South, among the ones I've been on, has perfect transitions, follows the terrain, goes through the treetops, is POWERFUL, and is green. It's at SFoG, and it'll BLOW your mind rather than simply BEND it....note the sig...;) ------------------ "Like most problems in life, it's nothing that can't be solved with a little bending"...Bender, Futurama
OTSR do not cause bad transitions. What a ridiculous statement. The only connection they have to bad transitions is that they accentuate them by giving your head something to bang against when traveling through one.
"Bad transition" doesnt need a definition - it IS a definition. When a change in direction on a coaster (transition) is not engineered well (bad) it can creates a non-smooth sensation for the riders.
------------------ Is that Freedom Rock? Well turn it up dude !!
Rollergator, I have heard that from other people too, so this summer I'm going to SFOG, just to ride an intense steelie with actual air. But I am still placing my vote on Grizzly at PKD. Especially at night, WOW.
And sorry for blowing up at ophthodoc, just no one EVER DARES to put AC above Grizzly.
Lol, my dad calls it Apollo's Wheelchair.
I do think that bad transitions can be covered up by eliminating OTSR's. It worked wonders for FOF.
------------------ I am not going back to Cedar Point until they throw Mean Streak's brakes into lake Erie. There should be a law against killing coasters like Cedar Fair does. *** This post was edited by nightride 5/6/2003 4:34:53 PM ***
coasterdude318 said:And I also continue to stand by the fact that the TR's you pointed out do nothing toward proving the "smoothness" of the ride.
Uh, while they may have not said "Big One was smooth," I certainly got the impression that it was. Nobody rides a ride that is unbearably rough over and over, do they? If someone does, please direct me to that trip report.
"Let's go ride the Big One, it's rough and boring!"