What is the deal with Nitro?
But if you can do without it, why put it there in the first place? And what does it add, 15 feet in length? I doubt it was a space constraint.
The train gets more speed on the drop when the dip is there. It is disengaged from the lift and is free to drop.
The new floorless in Spain does have the dip, but it doesn't turn into the drop like most B&M's do. (excluding Nitro, Raging Bull, and Apollo's Chariot)
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I needed a small vacation, so they put me on a train. They called it rehabilitation, but here I am again-Monster Magnet
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I needed a small vacation, so they put me on a train. They called it rehabilitation, but here I am again-Monster Magnet
Camel@Work said:
"But if you can do without it, why put it there in the first place? And what does it add, 15 feet in length? I doubt it was a space constraint."
As I understand it, the dips are there to reduce stress on the mechanical parts on the lift. Its a good idea, but maybe B&M was willing to take it out on this ride installation or perhaps there have been some modifications to the mechanical parts on the lift to accomodate the dip-less first drop.
I actually think that the dips on RB and AC are longer than 15 feet. A lot longer, actaully. And if you look at the over head pics from ridezone.com, you can see that the back portion of the ride is situated on something of a pennisula going out into the lake, so even if it were 15 feet, that would make a very big difference.
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WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACTUALLY INCLUDE SARCASM AND OR HUMOR. PLEASE CONSIDER BEFORE RESPONDING.
Iam happy Nitro doesnt have a dip, because the back seat gets a bigger and better pull form it, also you get a beautiful veiw in the front.
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Steven
www.sixflagsnews.com
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Steven
www.sixflagsnews.com
Judging by the photos at ridezone, there is still space to accomodate the dip even if it were longer than 15 feet. And if there wasn't, why not back up the lift hill a bit? Seems that there is room to move that way also (at least a bit). I think B&M could have designed a ride with the dip that would be just as tall and fit in the pretty much the same space. There has to be another reason they decided to go without it. Look at this picture of raging bull...
http://www.geocities.com/timhagestad/Temppic.jpg
(You will have to cut and paste the link to get it to work)
I drew lines to show how much distance is eliminated when the dip is removed. Someone should be able to tell how far it is by approximating the car length and multiplying it by the number of cars between the lines. My point is that I think there were other factors at work other than space constraints. Good point though ravenguy98 about the possible design changes to accomodate the absence of the dip.
*** This post was edited by Camel@Work on 6/14/2001. ***
http://www.geocities.com/timhagestad/Temppic.jpg
(You will have to cut and paste the link to get it to work)
I drew lines to show how much distance is eliminated when the dip is removed. Someone should be able to tell how far it is by approximating the car length and multiplying it by the number of cars between the lines. My point is that I think there were other factors at work other than space constraints. Good point though ravenguy98 about the possible design changes to accomodate the absence of the dip.
*** This post was edited by Camel@Work on 6/14/2001. ***
You are probably right. I'm sure they could have easily have built the ride with the dip, but maybe removing it relieved some spatial problems or something. Just a hunch.
When is somebody going to really ask SFGADv?
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WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACTUALLY INCLUDE SARCASM AND OR HUMOR. PLEASE CONSIDER BEFORE RESPONDING.
When is somebody going to really ask SFGADv?
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WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACTUALLY INCLUDE SARCASM AND OR HUMOR. PLEASE CONSIDER BEFORE RESPONDING.
It may be as simple as the park asked for it, but we won't know for sure until either B&M or SFGAdv comes clean. ;)
I thought I read something about it in ACEnews or First Drop, but I haven't been able to locate the article. (Isn't that always the way?)
I thought I read something about it in ACEnews or First Drop, but I haven't been able to locate the article. (Isn't that always the way?)
Oh, does B&M increase gravity now? Wow, that is an engineering marvel.
BGTKing said:
"The train gets more speed on the drop when the dip is there. It is disengaged from the lift and is free to drop."
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Jeff (who feels that they're not teaching enough basic physics in school these days)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Jeff: I hear that it has to due with anti-gravity thrusters placed on the flat section of the dip. Haven't you ever watched star trek?
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WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACTUALLY INCLUDE SARCASM AND OR HUMOR. PLEASE CONSIDER BEFORE RESPONDING.
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WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACTUALLY INCLUDE SARCASM AND OR HUMOR. PLEASE CONSIDER BEFORE RESPONDING.
It does go faster if you have a flat after the lift. When the train is completely free from the chain, it's center of mass is higher than if it was slowly let down a portion of the drop by the lift.
However, it is expensive to add track at that height. It requires much more metal for the supports and much bigger and more stable footers.
Just some thoughts.
However, it is expensive to add track at that height. It requires much more metal for the supports and much bigger and more stable footers.
Just some thoughts.
I remember my husband saying back when they were pouring the footers for the supports that there was supposed to be three support beams on each side of the lift hill but for some reason,i forget what my husband said and,ill ask him tonight,they ended up only using two supports.I will post the reason tonight when my husband comes home from work so i can ask him :)
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~*Rickyswmn*~
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~*Rickyswmn*~
Some idiot I was talking to said it was so the train doesn't jump the tracks. How the heck would that be possible? There are wheels on front of, below, and to the side of the track. It would be hard for the train to derail with all those wheels holding it on.
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"When you're goin' through hell, keep goin'"
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"When you're goin' through hell, keep goin'"
Wrong. In order for it to go faster the lift has to be higher, increasing its potential energy. While disregarding the insignificant amount of energy lost to friction in the couple dozen feet on the flat part, the train will reach the same speed at the bottom of the hill regardless of which type of lift peak it has.
ApolloAndy said:
"It does go faster if you have a flat after the lift. When the train is completely free from the chain, it's center of mass is higher than if it was slowly let down a portion of the drop by the lift."
Spec'd out a lot of coasters, have you?
ApolloAndy said:
"However, it is expensive to add track at that height. It requires much more metal for the supports and much bigger and more stable footers."
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Jeff (who can only speculate on such matters, as he's not an engineer, but can't stand it when others think they are)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Well, for the back row on Raging Bull, you get the most airtime on a first drop ever. Your actually going pretty fast on that straight piece of track. And when you get to the real drop, it throws you out of the seat. No joke, if that lap bar wasn't there, you'd be gone. But, the front row doesn't really get any airtime, but it get's the full affect of the frop. Which I like.
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There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people.
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There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people.
I prefer the dip. Better in back, Better in front.
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Neil, "Boy Genius, Hope of Mankind"
http://kmlaser81.tripod.com/RockinCoasterSite/
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Neil, "Boy Genius, Hope of Mankind"
http://kmlaser81.tripod.com/RockinCoasterSite/
ApolloAndy said:
"When the train is completely free from the chain, it's center of mass is higher than if it was slowly let down a portion of the drop by the lift.
"
Explain to me this new term I learned today. Center of mass. What is it? Are you mixing it up with center of gravity? That would have no effect on speed.
Jeff has a very good reason why the dip does not make the train faster.
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Everybodys got something to hide except for me and my monkey!
Rickyswmn: Any news?
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"Villain-Once You Drop, The Fun Don't Stop!"~SFWoA Rules In 2001~X Marks The Spot In 2001(SFWoA)~With SFWoA ANYTHING Is Possible!
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"Villain-Once You Drop, The Fun Don't Stop!"~SFWoA Rules In 2001~X Marks The Spot In 2001(SFWoA)~With SFWoA ANYTHING Is Possible!
Time to get some things straightened out here.
First of all, Velduanga says:
Sorry, but those are brakes. I'm not sure what they're for, but the train position is sensed with proximity switches...usually little green cubes or little orange lozenges...attached to the track to sense the position of parts of the train. For instance, the train would have to be totally clear of the lift chain before a pre-drop trim brake could close otherwise the lift chain mechanism could be seriously damaged. And yes, when the train reaches the prox switch at the top of the lift, the lift will slow down to idle.
trBiggar, the center of mass is the point on an object where all of the masses of the object balance. Mathematically, you can make the assumption that any force you apply acts on the center of mass.
Finally, ApolloAndy, you are overlooking something important about the way chain lifts work. The train has on it a series of chain clutches, which are the hinged chain dogs. The clutches are one-way overrunning clutches, which means that if the chain is moving faster than the car, the clutch will engage with a link in the chain. But if the car is moving faster than the chain, the clutch will easily over-run the chain. On (usually older) rides with single-speed lift chains, this is why you will hear that distinctive "Clickyclickyclickyclicky.....CRUNCH!" as the train over-runs the lift and then engages with it. At the top of the hill you'll hear the clicking again as the train's center of mass crests the hill and the train begins falling, accelerating and disengaging from the lift chain. The point is, there is no way for the lift chain to hold the train back from going on down the hill. It's gonna go, and when it does it will disengage from the chain as the clutch lets go.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
First of all, Velduanga says:
The brakes on the B&M dips arent brakes. Theyre catchers so they know the first car is off the lift hill and deactivates the lift chain. On inverted Beemer's, its a pin stuck out at the end of the dip. Watch the lift motor on Beemers before the train drops. It deactivates until the next train is sent out.
Sorry, but those are brakes. I'm not sure what they're for, but the train position is sensed with proximity switches...usually little green cubes or little orange lozenges...attached to the track to sense the position of parts of the train. For instance, the train would have to be totally clear of the lift chain before a pre-drop trim brake could close otherwise the lift chain mechanism could be seriously damaged. And yes, when the train reaches the prox switch at the top of the lift, the lift will slow down to idle.
trBiggar, the center of mass is the point on an object where all of the masses of the object balance. Mathematically, you can make the assumption that any force you apply acts on the center of mass.
Finally, ApolloAndy, you are overlooking something important about the way chain lifts work. The train has on it a series of chain clutches, which are the hinged chain dogs. The clutches are one-way overrunning clutches, which means that if the chain is moving faster than the car, the clutch will engage with a link in the chain. But if the car is moving faster than the chain, the clutch will easily over-run the chain. On (usually older) rides with single-speed lift chains, this is why you will hear that distinctive "Clickyclickyclickyclicky.....CRUNCH!" as the train over-runs the lift and then engages with it. At the top of the hill you'll hear the clicking again as the train's center of mass crests the hill and the train begins falling, accelerating and disengaging from the lift chain. The point is, there is no way for the lift chain to hold the train back from going on down the hill. It's gonna go, and when it does it will disengage from the chain as the clutch lets go.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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