Vekoma Flying Dutchman?
The first part, I meant that they dont put you on your back enough.
Yeah I know, thus, my response. If you still don't get it, I'm saying having riders on their back is a low point on any Flying coaster, in my opinion, and am glad B&M has strayed away from having layouts like Vekoma's, where half the time you're not "Flying," but looking at the sky, riding on your back, which I find very much non-thrilling.
The second part, I meant in terms of layout and track configuration.
Yes, I got that. Again, my response - you're kidding right? Besides having a suspended track setup, they're (B&M Flyers and inverts) nothing similar layout wise or element wise.
Perhaps the biggest downfall of the 2nd generation dutchman was the unrealistic demands on the motors. Power wise, they are well equipped, but they literally tear themselves apart. Reclining on the lift hill adds only more headaches. The motors under the cars (Called GAU Motors) have a short life as it is operating only in the station, the activation of the motor while the coach is moving is just plain murder.
Plain and simple, if Vekoma had not used on-board motors to raise and lower the cars (and used some other means), both X-Flight and Batwing could run three trains. Hindsight is twenty-twenty, however, and considering how much it costs just to maintain the ride as it is, I highly doubt either park will modify the current system.
Willh51 said:
I agree with all but the guest satisfaction. The people seem to love BORG, and this is after waiting in line for a good period of time.
I can see your point, except Borg is still fairly new to the park, right? X-FLight and Batwing seemed fairly popular their first year but interest just seemed to plummit after that from what I saw.
If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.
*** Edited 5/18/2006 2:00:56 AM UTC by coasterguts***
A day at the park is what you make it!
Coaster Lover said:
Last I checked, Batwing still get's a full queue through most of the summer (was every weekend in 2005).. and that's odd at SFA when most of the other coasters rarely use ANY of their maze ANY day at SFA.
FYI, having a full queue could also be attributed to the ride's horrible capacity in 2005 (slow and cumbersome load/unloading -- use of only one station -- one train operation), thus very slow moving lines, which in turn allows for a queue line to pile up within a matter of a few hours -- giving the illusion that so many people love the ride, when in fact they come off underwhelmed and don't understand why they got in line and waited so long for that ride in the first place. *cough* X-Flight circa 2002.
Anyway, when I visited SFA and SFWOA their 2nd seasons of operation the Dutchmen had hardly any lines. Granted I only had a few days in each park and I wasn't here all season. *** Edited 5/18/2006 1:35:16 AM UTC by Peabody***
Fun said:
CoasterLover, that rail you describe is not so much electronic as it is electric. It is a "bus bar" that allows electricity to flow to the motors in each car (I do find it interesting that SFA removed the bus bars on their ride- they esentially removed an added safety feature, the details of which I won't get into right now).Perhaps the biggest downfall of the 2nd generation dutchman was the unrealistic demands on the motors. Power wise, they are well equipped, but they literally tear themselves apart. Reclining on the lift hill adds only more headaches. The motors under the cars (Called GAU Motors) have a short life as it is operating only in the station, the activation of the motor while the coach is moving is just plain murder.
Plain and simple, if Vekoma had not used on-board motors to raise and lower the cars (and used some other means), both X-Flight and Batwing could run three trains. Hindsight is twenty-twenty, however, and considering how much it costs just to maintain the ride as it is, I highly doubt either park will modify the current system.
Correction the bus rails do both. They are how each train gets it's power to run it's systems and how the computer gets the all clear weather each seat is locked, the train GAUed down all the way and whether the locking pins locked the train reclined.
RideMan said:
Someone at Geauga Lake explained to me that the only way the timing works to run three trains is if the seats recline on the lift, and come up again on the back brake, the way the ride was designed to operate. The problem with that is that there are apparently mechanical problems with the train design such that if they run out to the lift with the seats up, or perhaps it is a problem with operating the hydraulics with the ride going up the lift, the load will actually bend the rods on the cylinders, damaging the mechanism and possibly causing the seats to jam. So they don't operate the seat lifts while the train is moving.Whether this is all true or not, I cannot verify. But that's the alibi I was given, by someone who knew me from this forum.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Thats one of the first excuses that got used on me. If you have ever watched a fast crew running two stations on either ride as soon as the train clears the loop you should have the next train leaving the station. So with two trains running two stations you can have an empty station, add train 3 back in and both should be back above 1000 pph. A good crew can rock trains on that ride.
But putting that aside, of the three 'flying' coaster designs, they are really the only one that actually got it right. The Zamperla is the one that you get to ride in a stretched out fly-like-Superman position. The others, you're just sitting in a seat and laid down flat. What's with that?!
The removed bus-bar on the SFA coaster sent data around, but that was to make sure the cars were down and locked before they got to lift PONR. By performing that test in the station before the train is dispatched, there really isn't any need to check again on the lift. Once the train is locked up, it's going to stay that way, particularly if there is no bus-bar to trigger anything on the lift! :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I also find it ironic that Vekoma's newer rides are sometimes considered TOO complicated safety wise for their own good. I know that Deja Vu's safety system has caused its fair share of headaches and I assume the fliers do as well. I can only imagine how many times the lift would be shut down because of a train sensor feeling the seats aren't fully reclined. *** Edited 5/18/2006 4:45:04 AM UTC by Willh51***
wheels00000 said:
So with two trains running two stations you can have an empty station, add train 3 back in and both should be back above 1000 pph. A good crew can rock trains on that ride.
How would three train operation work on this ride? I mean, you have to have a really good crew that is able to dispatch one side of the station really quickly so trains one and three would consistently arrive on the correct side. Otherwise you run into problems with people getting their "loose articles" from the bins or one train sitting in the break run until the other dispatches. Without looking at a picture of the brake run, that might spell disaster. I'm not sure about that last sentence though. The brake run might be designed to hold more than one train.
A day at the park is what you make it!
coasterguts said:How would three train operation work on this ride? I mean, you have to have a really good crew that is able to dispatch one side of the station really quickly so trains one and three would consistently arrive on the correct side. Otherwise you run into problems with people getting their "loose articles" from the bins or one train sitting in the break run until the other dispatches. Without looking at a picture of the brake run, that might spell disaster. I'm not sure about that last sentence though. The brake run might be designed to hold more than one train.
The trains switch stations during three train op you shouldn't come back to the same station. Thats why if you look around batwing they still have the signs up at the enterance to the line no lose articles beyond this point.
The picture shows the brakes and the drive wheels to bring it back to the station.
The reason Vekoma did it's train the way they did is they would have been able to sit the train up on the lift to evacuate the ride making it easier.
Stealth/Borg has that system where there are lifting jacks on the side of the platform which push up on the car to raise it for unloading but the main reason why the ride goes down so frequently is probably because of the computers onboard that monitor the restraint system....heck the ride shakes so much that the connections inside the junction boxes behind each seat probably get shaken loose from time to time.
I know that part of the problem is that the seats don't lock properly,this happened on my last visit...first train one broke down but a few minutes later they simply couldn't get the seats in car 4 or train 2 to lock so that put the ride out of comission for the remainder of the afternoon.
They don't have to raise the train to evac on the lift,I've seen them do it before plenty of times & all they have to do is climb up,unlock each row individually & have riders step out & walk down
.When vekoma designed the ride the concept of using an inverted station simply didn't come to mind,they actually began brainstorming the idea for a flyer as far back as 1987 but it wasn't until 1992 that technology was starting to progress to the point where they could overcome the basic hurdles of how to load riders & move them into the prone position & yet it still took another 8 years of development before the prototype could actually be built.
I have rode X-flight and Batwing and like most Vekomas they shold be cut up and sold for scrap. *** Edited 5/18/2006 9:15:12 PM UTC by BG Nut***
I miss Drachen Fire
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