Vekoma Flying Dutchman?

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:08 PM
Has either of the production model fleyers ever succesfully run three trains two stations. To my knloledge Batwing never has but did they manage it with X-Flight. The best i've seen is two trains two stations.
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:13 AM
Batwing has run two trains on two stations most all of this year, and word from the management is that they will be getting the third train back on the tracks this year (in past years, it had been canibilized for parts for the other two trains). My guess is that they will keep the third train on the transfer track and use it as a back-up for if/when one of the other two trains breaks down. However, I guess they could run all three trains if they wanted to. The only real problem is that the Flying Dutchman coasters take so gosh darn long to load, that if you run three trains, the last train seems to have to wait forever on the final block waiting to go into the station and it's just uncomfortable to be on your back that long waiting for the coaster in the station to leave.

If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:20 AM
I know it has run both stations most of this year the new GM at SFA does not want it running two trains out of one station because of how it stacks. It also ran two stations most of fright fest last year at the end of the night. I was trying to figure out if three trains had ever been managed. With a good crew and three trains it should have little stacking as long as they dispatch on interval. But has either one actualy managed to get all three trains on and running at the same time.
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:46 PM
Someone at Geauga Lake explained to me that the only way the timing works to run three trains is if the seats recline on the lift, and come up again on the back brake, the way the ride was designed to operate. The problem with that is that there are apparently mechanical problems with the train design such that if they run out to the lift with the seats up, or perhaps it is a problem with operating the hydraulics with the ride going up the lift, the load will actually bend the rods on the cylinders, damaging the mechanism and possibly causing the seats to jam. So they don't operate the seat lifts while the train is moving.

Whether this is all true or not, I cannot verify. But that's the alibi I was given, by someone who knew me from this forum.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:51 PM
That's a reasonable explaination and one I've heard before (indirectly) from somebody most of us longer-timers around here are familar with.
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:57 PM
Batwing dispatched the train seats up two seasons ago and reclined them as the train started up the lift... I liked that much better... I always wandered why they never brought them back up after the train stopped on the brake up and let the train roll back in the station as the seats come in. It ran much quicker... I think both parts should set it as a goal to get the ride runnin as it was supposed to... or atleast re-call the trains if there is a mechanical problem. *** Edited 5/17/2006 8:58:05 PM UTC by VaRyda***
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:18 PM
Not to be off topic but how does it look for these coasters? I would like to see more of these coasters/different layouts. *** Edited 5/17/2006 9:19:17 PM UTC by P18***
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:22 PM
I"d say not good. From what I can tell they are mechanical nightmares to keep up. In addition, they are fairly expensive and overall guest satisfaction is rather low. It wouldn't surprise me if we never see one again.
Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:43 PM
matt.'s avatar

Peabody said:
and overall guest satisfaction is rather low.

Nice euphamism for:

They suck. ;)

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:45 PM
I thought I read someplace that another one was opening over seas, but it's not showing up on rcdb. Anyone know for sure?

A day at the park is what you make it!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:45 PM
I wasnt sure since there were some poeple that said they were superior to the first B&M designs and were more interesting. I guess I like Vekoma because I always root for the underdog. To prove that,theres an Atari Jaguar set up in my room CD drive and all... (random) lol.

There are new Vekoma inverts being built overseas, with what looks like a pretty cool layout, haven't heard about any new flying dutchmans. *** Edited 5/17/2006 9:49:32 PM UTC by P18***

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:47 PM
I think a lot of people would say they like the design of the course but would much rather have the B&M Trains. The loop on Batwing is insane, the way it just kind of pauses for a second at the top, not to mention the g's.

A day at the park is what you make it!

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:59 PM
matt.'s avatar Right. The Vekoma layout is superior, but uncomfortable. The B&M layout (pre-tatsu) isn't so hot but the comfort level is what the flying coaster should have been all along.

Then again the Volare's are masterpieces of the form, quite possibly the greatest thrillrides ever unleashed on the masses.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:35 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar I actually found the Vekoma trains to be fairly comfy. And I liked the layout a lot. In fact, save the pretzel loop there's nothing about the S:UF's that excites me.

The thing that absolutely does it for me on the Vekoma's is the half flip at the top. The first time I rode it, being put in flying position 100' up rather than 6' up was a real thrill. It really gives you a chance to appreciate the flying sensation and gives you a great appreciation for the restraints. On the B&M's when you first hit flying position you could fall out of the thing and probably get up and walk away.


Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:38 PM

VaRyda said:
I think both parks should set it as a goal to get the ride runnin as it was supposed to.

Unfortunatly, you won't see that happen, at least not at SFA. To improve reliability of the ride, SFA removed a lot of the unnecessary parts on Batwing. The most obvious being the electronic rail that runs along the side of the track from the final brake, around the turn, through the station, and up the lift as seen on the side of the track in this pic of X-flight:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig920.htm?picture=3

A contact on the side of each car runs along this guide rail giving the car the signal to raise or recline. Unfortunatly, it was also sending a lot of incorrect feedback causing Batwing to shut down. SFA just removed this rail (except in the station) and the coaster has run better ever since. Unfortunatly, with the removal of the rail comes the removal of the feature to recline the train of the lift and raise it on the brake run.

Once SFA's Flying Dutchman did recline on the lift (as you mentioned), and it was a very cool feeling, but I don't think you'll be seeing that feature ever again, at least not at SFA.


If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:52 PM
rollergator's avatar

ApolloAndy said:I actually found the Vekoma trains to be fairly comfy. And I liked the layout a lot.

Other than the obvious reliability issues (mostly due to the over-complicated computerized trains), those flyers did pretty much everything I wanted...when I could stand waiting through those lines, LOL. Until Geauga last year, I'd never ridden one of those more than once in a day...

...and yes, the inversion at the top, that first time on Stealth, scared me pretty good. :)

P.S. Weird how every major park chain has JUST one of these, huh? ;)

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:01 PM
Ahh....Vekoma Flying Dutchman......The poor mans B&M flyer. I do think the layout is much better than the B&M's though, If the B&M's had you lying on your back more and did more under/over transitions, I think they would be way better. As they are now, they are not much more than a B&M inverted with different trains.
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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:08 PM

GothamJ said:
If the B&M's had you lying on your back more and did more under/over transitions, I think they would be way better.

Eh. I beg to differ. I thought the weak point of Stealth (now BORG) and X-Flight were that they spent way too much time having their riders on their backs as opposed to lying on their stomachs in the "flying" position. Sure, there are good moments when riders are in the prone position, but the lie-to-fly and fly-to-lie maneuvers are really pointless and don't produce any kind of sensation of flight for me. Either do a complete 360 aerial twist, or don't do it at all. Those half-flip things are "dead" spots on the Vekoma Flyers IMO.


As they are now, they are not much more than a B&M inverted with different trains.

You're kidding right?

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:15 PM
The first part, I meant that they dont put you on your back enough.

The second part, I meant in terms of layout and track configuration.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:18 PM

Peabody said:
I"d say not good. From what I can tell they are mechanical nightmares to keep up. In addition, they are fairly expensive and overall guest satisfaction is rather low. It wouldn't surprise me if we never see one again.

I agree with all but the guest satisfaction. The people seem to love BORG, and this is after waiting in line for a good period of time.

It would be so damn cool if they reclined on the lift hill. Does anyone have pics of SFA's doing this? To me it sounds like a bad idea though, I can see it not setting right, shutting down, etc. I don't believe that 3 trains should be any different than BORG with two trains, one waits on the break run there. In theory, it should wait less because the opposite side of the station from which it left would have been loading for longer and could dispatch quicker. Kudos to Geauga if they get three trains running, and I dare them to make the seats recline out of the station.

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