Two more out the door at Geagua Lake?

Yeah, not sure how that happened!

Actually, I'm not so much for growth as I am against this particular brand of downsizing. I agree that CF may be taking the necessary steps backwards to bring GL back down to a reasonable, workable size, but I don't believe they are taking any of the necessary forward steps. The park was heavy on the thrill rides but now that the park is being billed as a family park, where are the family-friendly rides and attractions... like the ones that nearby Cedar Point seems to ignore? Wouldn't it make more sense to replace Dominator with a Gerstlauer spinning coaster and Thunderhawk an interactive darkride or a couple of flats? Right now it seems like all take and no give, and I can't help but that that continually projects the idea that GL is declining and there is no reason for anyone to go. I know that if the skyline of my local park started to get empty, I'd wonder what was going on and maybe decide to not risk wasting my money. As is usually the case with me, it's about perception.

Park constantly loses rides = park going downhill = no future for park. I don't think any of that assumption is unreasonable.

I don't believe GL will get rid of Thunderhawk or Dominator, but I can't see them keeping Headspin around. I don't think it is coincident that all the rides they have removed so far have been on a certain side of the park. And look at the rides that are staying put so far, like their sky scrapper. My guess is we are looking at GL's future major Nickelodeon Family area. Its the perfect area over there, and they can keep the foam ball area and redo incorporate that small kiddie area they kind of have over there. That entire side of the park could be amazing. To my knowledge they haven't removed the sky scrapper or the monorail, both of which would do great in a Nickelodeon area. There is not much danger of competing with KI because it draws from a different market, and I think it would be the perfect fit for the northern Ohio region They already built the water park and the new catering area to attract companies and groups to the park. They have a decent collection of thrill rides. With a great family area similar to Carowinds and KI, GL would be the perfect local park in my opinion and probably find its niche like it had back in the day.

In my opinion, the reason to go to Geauga Lake is the same reason that people go to other small amusement parks - a good, old-fashioned fun day at an amusement park with lots of good food, games, and fun rides. The problem is that Cedar Fair doesn't really do the food thing very well, and both the food and the games are over-priced.

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I agree that CF may be taking the necessary steps backwards to bring GL back down to a reasonable, workable size, but I don't believe they are taking any of the necessary forward steps.

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I understand that totally. I just don't think it's necessary to do steps one and two - they should be fine doing step one then step two.

You have to figure out where you are before you can figure out where you're going. :)

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The park was heavy on the thrill rides but now that the park is being billed as a family park, where are the family-friendly rides and attractions... like the ones that nearby Cedar Point seems to ignore?

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They're on the SW side of the park. In fact, that's all that's on the SW side of the park - all kinds of family experiences (the rides, the waterpark, the kiddie areas, the 4D theatre).

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Park constantly loses rides = park going downhill = no future for park. I don't think any of that assumption is unreasonable.

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Not on the short term at least.

I'm of the mindset that it is often necessary to take one step back in order to take two steps forwards. It's easy to look at that step backwards and think bad things, but when those two steps forward happen as a direct result of that one step back - the picture suddenly makes sense.

In fact (and this is kinda unrealated) that seems to be a theme in much of my arguements - that the big picture isn't being looked at. Seems a lot like the SF thing. Looks bad if we just look at the now, but see the bigger picture or the long term plan and it makes sense.

The old SF screwed up on a monumental level across the board. Now we're seeing all these different corporations trying to figure out how to fix it. Snyder/Shapiro struggling with SF. CF figuring out GL. Even the parks that Snyder/Shapiro sold off (Darien, Elitch, etc) have reported 'business as usual' since the sell.

It's a hard fix apparently and one that probably takes time (assuming a fix is even possible).

I'm ok with what's happening in Aurora.

I'd be happy if GL put in a Troika or something like it. A good variety of flats would be nice.

If Dominator and Thunderhawk are going, just as X-Flight and Steel Venom did, at least give us something that can't be played in a backyard picnic.

Gonch, I have to disagree on you on this one for this reason: between X-Flight, Steel Venom, Thunderhawk and Dominator I guarentee you that you have just elimated 98.5% of your standard able to ride the ride GP's favorite ride at the park. People sour on a place quickly when amusement places take out the things they enjoyed the most (look at how many people still resent them taking out the animals, if they take out all four of their "big coasters" you can expect a similar backlash.) *** Edited 8/28/2007 7:49:41 PM UTC by Touchdown***

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Lord Gonchar said:

You have to figure out where you are before you can figure out where you're going.

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Likewise, figuring out where you're going plays a big role in what you do with what you are.

I guess I go back to what I've been wondering for some time now- where is GL headed? Is the waterpark the future with the rides side of the park will be picked apart with the "less valuable" aspects being left to die? Is the park being purged of all rides that won't be necessary in the future so room can be made for new ones? Is CF still unsure of what they're going to do? It would all make so much sense if we knew a little more.

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halltd said:
If Geauga Lake was poised to be such major competitor to Cedar Point when Six Flags owned it, why'd they sell it so easily? Didn't Cedar Fair get the park for a bargain? If it was such a hot commodity, Six Flags would have sold it for a much higher price. But, from what I understand, they ate their shirt on the sale.

To me, that means there was something going on that we don't know about and they wanted out of the park.

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The answer is simple - Six Flags has big money problems. Think of it this way: if a person goes into major debt they have to start liquidating their assets to avoid digging themselves into a bigger hole or going into bankruptcy (worst case scenario). If you got yourself into debt, which of your assets would you sell? Your house? Probably not, since you need a place to live. Your car? Maybe, since you could always take the bus or walk. The point is... Six Flags Worlds of Adventure was a park that was liquid because there was someone interested in it (Cedar Fair) and it was a park that was not a Six Flags flagship (at the time). Six Flags Worlds of Adventure would have needed improvements year after year to continue competing with Cedar Point; Six Flags simply didn't have the financial ability to do that. It was a better strategic move for them to focus on their flagship parks which are more profitable and don't have to compete heavily with other parks.

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Jeff Young said:
In my opinion, the reason to go to Geauga Lake is the same reason that people go to other small amusement parks - a good, old-fashioned fun day at an amusement park with lots of good food, games, and fun rides. The problem is that Cedar Fair doesn't really do the food thing very well, and both the food and the games are over-priced.

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The problem is that a lot of people don't agree with your opinion about GL being a good, old-fashioned, fun place. Geauga Lake is anything but old fashioned. The atmosphere is nothing like the good ol' fashioned parks like Kennywood or Holiday World. The park is anything but family friendly anymore, since families generally scoff at paying $9 for parking, $12 per person for lunch, $10 for a basketball game, and so on. How many rides at Kennywood and Holiday World have height requirements that allow kids to go on with their parents. How many of those same rides at Geauga Lake have very strict height requirements that won't let kids on (the Grizzly Run and Big Dipper quickly come to mind)

Its all part of the identity crisis. What is Geauga Lake? Affordable family park? Big corporate thrill seekers paradise? Best waterpark in town? None of the above?

I loved Geauga Lake in the 80s, I loved it in the 90s, I loved it as Six Flags, and honestly, I've lost most of that love. You could bring it back to its "nostalgic" days by removing all the rides and such, but it will never be the same. To me, the atmosphere of the park has been ruined over the last four and virtually unfixable. Many people liked the park in the 80s, yes, but expectations were much lower. Cedar Point (and other competitors) had far fewer rides and coasters and Geauga Lake never had more than a few major attractions. Now that the bar has been set so high and expectations are big, you can't simply revert back to the "nostalgic" days and expect people to show up completely happy with the place. Like I said before, there are a lot of forms of entertainment available today that didn't exist when I was a youngster, whats going to draw anyone to a 1980s version of Geauga Lake anyways?

I don't think Cedar Fair is going about the right sizing with enough gusto. Why worry about right sizing one park when they ought to do so with the whole chain like SF is doing? Now that they've assimilated the Paramount parks with their higher attendance and higher revenues, seems like it would be time to sell off the the lower performers. Get rid of some debt and allow them to focus on parks that are less of a headache and have some potential for growth.

I do believe this is the first year Kings Island added a new coaster and the attendance actually went down.

Chuck

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halltd said:^^ I see what you're saying and don't quite understand it myself. But, the two situations are a tad different. White Water Landing and Gold Rusher are/were removed totally - never to be ridden again. The rides at Geauga Lake were/are being installed at other parks. So, it's still possible to ride them.

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But the GP in this area aren't going to drive all the way to Virginia or Muskegon to ride their favorites. It's just not going to happen. Since it looks like these rides are leaving, CF should just come out and tell everyone to ride them one last time. It would be the decent thing to do. There's no need for the secrecy.

Some of you mentioned about taking the park back to the 80's/90's. GL may have only had four coasters at the time of Funtime's sale to Premier/SF but the park had a very good collection of flats for the family. Where are they now? It's bad enough the front half of the park is like a ghost town (Head Spin seems pretty isolated by the road).

I've gone just about every weekend and it was packed every Saturday in July and most of August - both sides of the lake. The lines for Thunderhawk and Dominator would be coming out of the station and down into parts of the queue. I haven't seen that since the SF days.

Finally, some of you state that SF overbuilt the park. I can agree with that but if you look at the park now, it doesn't seem that way anymore.

X-Factor *** Edited 8/28/2007 10:52:37 PM UTC by X Factor***

You can't judge attendance until the season is actually over. KI gets ridiculously crowded in October.

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pkidelirium said:You can't judge attendance until the season is actually over. KI gets ridiculously crowded in October.

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Thats purely weather and promotionally related and the first CF has no control over.

Paramount sold the crap out of next year SP's durring this time, I've seen no such promotion from CF.

Chuck

^Lets also not forget that KI drastically cut their operating days this year.

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X Factor said:
Since it looks like these rides are leaving, CF should just come out and tell everyone to ride them one last time. It would be the decent thing to do. There's no need for the secrecy.

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Good point, I never thought about that before. Are they so afraid of potential backlash at GL this year that they have to wait until after the season? Or is the company in such a state of disarray that they simply don't know what they want to do right now?

Anyone who has ever gone to the Q&A at Coasterbuzz could probably tell you that Cedar Fair prides itself on having plans for development several years out. Why the change?

I really don't think the park owes it to anyone to offer them up "last rides". They do what they need to do and if they don't feel that involves telling anyone, so be it.

Besides a bunch of rumors, has there been anything substantiating the claim both of these coasters are leaving? At least last year we had pics of a survey company from Cincinnati around X-Flight.

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Touchdown said:^Lets also not forget that KI drastically cut their operating days this year.

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Their attendance based by me is simply number of cars/busses in the parking lot.

It's down this year, A LOT!
Cept for saturdays, It looked and from my brothers first hand experience. Everything is walk on most times except FOF, Thunderchicken and Delerium.

Chuck

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mfivsdarienlake said:
Complete phase-out of the ride side in the near future?

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Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest! CF has three stand-alone waterparks out on the west coast already. http://www.knotts.com/soakcity/index.shtml

Ever since CF moved and remodeled Whitewater Kingdom it's been able to stand by itself without the ride side, in my opinion. I would hate to see Dominator go, but it would make sense to put it somewhere where it's going to get serious ridership.

If this does happen though, I would still love GL. Dominator being gone would suck, but there would still be Villain, Double Loop, Head Spin, Big Dipper, Ragin' Wolf Bob's, and Beaver Land Mine Ride.

Well, they sure didn't mind telling people about White Water Landing's demise. Heck, who wants to ride a flume ride at the end of October in Ohio? Brrrr.

Give it time. The surveying van at XF didn't show up until after the park closed. Park is open for only another three weekends (well, they're closed Sept. 9th). And whose to say what's going on now that they're closed this entire week?

If both Dominator and Thunderhawk are removed, the 4 coasters that were removed all had height requirements that were 52 or 54 inches in height. To me if you want a family park, its understandable to keep the rides that can appeal to as many visitors as possible.

Another strike against Dominator is it's high capacity ( around 1500 an hour). You just don't find that size of a coaster at a low attendance park(sub million). It would fit better at a bigger park like king's dominion which probably has a attendance around 2 million plus a season.