Two more out the door at Geagua Lake?
If any other park chain would buy a park and then systematically dismantal it (or if any other independent park woudl sell off its coasters) there would be a deafening roar of protest by the coater enthusiast community.
BUT...
If Cedar Fair buys a park and systematically dismantals it, then it is looked at as by many in that same group as "a good business decision."
Six Flags massively improved the park IMO with the ride additions and the slight theming they put into place. It was a shame they couldn't manage what they built. The fatal error for them was combining the parks. Too much to manage, and combining separate gate prices into one price........
Cedar Fair was known for quality when they were a smaller company, but watch out. They have over expanded and bought up too much just like Six Flags. The highest quality managed parks tend to be the single-owned ones like Holiday World, Knoebels and Hershey.....
Yes Cedar Fair is highly over-rated. They stuck a bunch of "biggest" coasters (with mediocre, unintersting track layouts) in at one park and many people are hypnotized into thinking they are the best amusment park company. They don't create atmosphere in their parks ( area theming, trees, etc), they just put in rides. And normally they destroy atmosphere when they install these rides (tree removal etc).
Paramount long ago killed the overall theming and atmosphere of their parks, and they were becoming C-class parks anyhow overall, so Cedar Fair can't destroy those parks too much more than what has already been done.
It just isn't the amusement park industry. Uncontrolled corporate American, mergers and overall greed have lead to the decline in quality of so many things..........Eliminate the competition and you don't have to produce a great product.
*** Edited 8/27/2007 6:44:32 PM UTC by super7****
Well, for example, Canada's Wonderland is getting a 230ft tall mile-long hyper, which imo would have never happened under paramount.
Maybe most of the rides will move, but they can keep the Big Dipper and incorporate it into a Boardwalk-style shopping, entertainment and housing experience.
It seems safe to say that the ride side is gone. Thunderhawk is the dead give-away. Move it from a family park to another family park (Michigan's Adventure). Hmmm...
Martling said:
I agree with most of you...if these two coasters are removed, there will be no appeal to the ride side. Heck, it's a mess now with remants of the old waterpark and all the empty space where X-Flight and Venom were removed. Take Thunderhawk and Dominator out and it's going to be flat-out depressing. Raging Wolf Bobs is closed. The rapids ride is closed half the time. The kiddie area looks bland with the Looney Tunes characters gone. I have to imagine the ride side is closing. What's the point of going?...spend a tad more and go to best of the best...Cedar Point an hour away.Maybe most of the rides will move, but they can keep the Big Dipper and incorporate it into a Boardwalk-style shopping, entertainment and housing experience.
It seems safe to say that the ride side is gone. Thunderhawk is the dead give-away. Move it from a family park to another family park (Michigan's Adventure). Hmmm...
Flat out it's time for Geauga Lake Town Center, with an adjacent water park! Bring on Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel, Cheesecake Factory, Lacoste, Apple Store, etc....
Dominator, except for the interlocking corkscrews, was really smooth as well. It's got a great layout, and would be the big coaster that KD has needed for a longtime. In fact, it's be great if they kept the over-the-water theme of Dominator and removed Anaconda:)
Realitor: "Perhaps I could interest you in something Park View Estates. We call it Park View because of its location overlookin old, historic Geauga Lake park."
Prospective Buyer: "Um... I didn't see a park when we drove in."
Realitor: "Of course you didn't... it was torn down to make room for Park View Estates."
*** Edited 8/27/2007 7:21:00 PM UTC by SLFAKE***
PhantomTails said:
Rob: The waterpark during the Six Flags era had many more attractions than Wildwater Kingdom does now. Explain to me how that didn't qualify as a major waterpark.
My point was that it was never billed as a separate gate, instead just an attraction in the amusement park.
Lord Gonchar said:
We're saying returning GL to what it was before SF moved in (or as close as possible at this point) is a bad thing?
I'm all for returning Geauga Lake to its traditional roots, but is that going to happen? It seems that CF is taking from the park whatever they can to add to other CF properties for a small cost and is doing nothing at all to plan for GL's future. Coasters like X-Flight and Dominator weren't exactly the stuff you'd find at traditional parks (like Geauga Lake in the pre-SF days) but why not replace them with something? Right now I have no reason to believe this isn't leading to a complete closure of the rides section in the very near future.
tigellinus said:
Flat out it's time for Geauga Lake Town Center, with an adjacent water park! Bring on Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel, Cheesecake Factory, Lacoste, Apple Store, etc....
Actually,
If it is true that they are removing Dominator, I hope it does turn into a better Legacy Village, but with a roller coaster (Big Dipper) and a water park.
I was at the park yesterday, and even my brother, who could care less about amusement parks (compared to us), commented on how the area I call "crap corner" has changed! I have no problems with ride removals, if those rides get replaced. I do care when rides get removed, and you have to pay more for less!
If if wasn't for the All Ohio parking pass, I doubt I would have visited Geauga Lake much this year, even though it is a lot closer to me than Cedar Point.
At least next year hopefully there will be a Wal-Mart Super Center across the street, so I have an excuse to go down there even if my favorite ride(s) are gone.
-Sam
1) The need to Right Size. Let's assume Geauga lake can draw 1 mil guests per year. Even with 6 coasters that's 166,666 guests per coaster. By contrast CP has 17 coasters for OVER 3 mil guests or 1 coaster per 176,470 per coaster. So dropping down to 6 coasters is not unreasonable.
2) The need to Attract Guests. It is not enough to cut expenses to draw guests to the proper level, CF must give guests a reason to attend Geauga Lake. If the rumors are true the park will have, excluding the kiddie coaster, 2 coasters less than 20 years old. Their newest coaster will be Villain--from 2000. When was the last time a new flat was added? The water park is obviously intended to be the big draw, but even there unless they add something next year the last addition will be 2005--3 seasons (counting 08) ago.
To get Geauga Lake "back" to where it was (as Lord Gonchar suggests) would require BOTH removing the excess AND investing in new attractions. Geauga Lake built 3 coasters (Cyclone, Corkscrew, and Double Loop) in the 70's, Raging Wolf Bobs 10 years after Corkscrew and Head Spin 8 years after RWB. Plus a water park. All BEFORE Premere or Six Flags.
CF is quite right in getting expenses down to the level that can be supported by a million or so guests per year. But they have to make the necessary investments to keep the park fresh and attract customers--and that includes a new coaster every decade or so (not a $20 mil hyper, but similar to what they put into Valley Fair and Worlds of Fun which also draw about 1 mil or less per year) and other additions such as flats or water park upgrades more frequently. And, for Heaven's sakes, please connect the two sides with some type of people mover like a train or ground level monorail!
Cutting the way to success without investment is doomed to fail. Otherwise, since Cedar Point's attendance peaked with Millenium Force, CF would right size CP by removing Maverick, Sky Hawk, Maxx Air, TTD & WT. (As an added bonus, it would turn CP "back" into what it "was.")
Adding lots of expnsive coasters is equally doomed. Otherwise it would still be Six Flags World of Adventure.
But BOTH strategies are important. Geauga Lake has always invested in new attractions. When Fun Time sold it in 1996 it had 5 coasters: 1 classic (Big Dipper 70 yrs old) 2 coasters approx 20 years old ( Double Loop 1977, Corkscrew 1978) and two coasters less than 10 years old (Raging Wolf Bobs 1988, Head Spin 1996).
Perhaps 5 coasters is the right number: Big Dipper, Mine Ride, RWB, Villain, and the 2009 project? And a 2008 addition to the water park? *** Edited 8/27/2007 7:52:30 PM UTC by Captain Hawkeye*** *** Edited 8/27/2007 7:54:17 PM UTC by Captain Hawkeye***
This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!
Willh51 said:
I really can't understand what Cedar Fair is attempting to do with this park, but I'll welcome Dominator to King's Dominion. Thank goodness its not another launch coaster...I kid because Volcano is amazing. Seems like a good plan with Hypersonic on the block. And if this happens at least MiA is getting something, although I'm sure an SLC isn't you guys' first choice.
Yeah I'll be glad to have something with a lift instead of a launch for once.
We could always ship HSXLC off to GL as a sort of consolation prize though.Seriously though why would GL all of a sudden turn into a bad park with these rides being removed? It'll be as if they were never built in the first place.
People went to GL long before there was a floorless or inverted coaster added to the park & they'll probably continue to go afterwards,it's only the enthusiasts who complain the loudest whenever rides are being removed.
People went to GL long before there was a floorless or inverted coaster added to the park & they'll probably continue to go afterwards,it's only the enthusiasts who complain the loudest whenever rides are being removed."
That applies to ANY ride at ANY park. For example:
Seriously though why would CP all of a sudden turn into a bad park with TTD & Maverick being removed?
OR People went to SFGAdv long before there was a floorless or prefab wood coaster added to the park & they'll probably continue to go afterwards,it's only the enthusiasts who complain the loudest whenever rides are being removed.
All parks have to evolve and upgrade. CP had its attendance peak before Maverick, TTD, WT, Sky Hawk & Max Air, yet no one would be silly enough to suggest removing them from CP would have no negative effect on the park. People went to Holiday World before Voyage--does that mean they could ship Voyage to KD without hurting the park?
If GL is exactly it was in the 80's it will fail--this is the 00's. And, as I argue above, removing the rides won't make GL like it was in the 80's & 90's: back then it had newer, recently added attractions, not 20+ year old ones.
This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!
SixFlagsKingdaKa said:
tigellinus said:
KD has too much already!!! BOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!not if they take out anaconda ;)
No f'ing way.
Kennywooddude said:
I don't get their motive...remove to popular attractions despite an increase in attendence? Is DICK that worried about Geauga Lake turning around into a better park? I do know one think...CF is gone down the drain in the last few years.
The logic is simple... fewer coasters means lower costs and IF (big if) attendance is up this year it means more short term profits. Of course, the question is: will people keep coming back year after year as the place implodes on itself? I doubt it.
I've been a season pass holder for decades (since I was a kid) and 2008 will officially be the year I do not purchase a season pass. Going to Geauga Lake used to be fun, now its just a downer. There are a lot of forms of entertainment now that didn't exist when I was a youngster, I think I'll take a look at what some of them have to offer.
TXRidersaid:CF is wayyy overrated, they make money, that's all they care about, and to be honest, I think that after the paramount purchase, they are in over thier heads. But I could be wrong.
Don't worry, you're not the only person that thinks they are in over their heads. A company with $1.5billion in market cap (and shrinking) and $2billion in debt is not a recipe for success. I know, I know... Six Flags is is a $300million market cap company with $2.5billion debt. Cedar Fair is certainly better off than Six Flags in that sense, but that doesn't mean they're doing great either.
I find it ironic, no hilarious, that for years Cedar Fair boasted being the most successful company in the industry while Six Flags ran itself into the ground by aquiring too many parks too fast. Now Cedar Fair appears to be following exactly the same strategy. They say that greed can overwhelm logic sometimes, and I can't help but think this is a great case of that.
Closed topic.
