There's never been a hotel there BEFORE....

Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:42 AM
slithernoggin's avatar

billb7581 said:

Are those run by the same entity though?

What I am saying is that the Six Flags people probably aren't going to be too keen on a competitor setting up shop right in their back yard.

May I introduce you to Cedar Point and its good friend, Castaway Bay?

And now let's move to southern Ohio. While Kings Island does not own the Great Wolf Lodge, it's right next door. The park and the hotel work together, offering packages that include admission to Kings Island, for example. You may think the Six Flags people probably aren't going to be too keen on a competitor in their back yard. Maybe the Six Flags people have already figured out Kings Island is doing just fun with a competitor in their front yard.


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:20 PM

RCMAC said:

Why can't you see the fact that this concept works perfectly well in other areas of the country. The competition is a building thing, not detrimental. If anything, it causes everyone to step it up rather than rest on their heels.

I have said that GWL could potentially work there. But you'd be competing with the GWL up by all the ski mountains...for winter guests. I can't really see spending more than a weekend at GWL, but maybe I am the exception. In the summer indoor water parks suck, IMO they are like saunas and it gets pretty hot/humid here. And that's not even mentioning the 2 indoor water parks about 25 minutes from Philly (albeit not as nice as a GWL)

Other areas of the country aren't located an easy drive from tens of millions of people... I think the proximity to NYC and Philly works against it being a "destination" rather than for it.

It's just my opinion to which I am entitled, no?

Anecdotally, the "tipping point" for me whether to overnite is around 2 hours.

Dorney = Daytrip

GA = Daytrip

Hershey starts to get into the grey area from Philly, if they didn't have the "preview" feature where you can purchase the tickets the night before, I would probably day trip it... (as an aside we stayed at the Clarion in New Cumberland 80 bucks free breakfast, no gravy though... and it was nice... rooms opened to an indoor pool)

Knoebels, I'm grabbing a cheap motel in danville

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:30 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:25 PM

RCMAC said:

Six Flags absolutely cares which park you go to,

At the corporate level? The CEO and shareholders? Does it really matter to them if you go to Great America, or Great Adventure?

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:56 PM
slithernoggin's avatar

My opinion about indoor waterparks during the summer + my opinion about proximity to metropolitan areas + my opinion about whether a park is worth a daytrip or an overnight stay = absolute proof that a hotel at Great Adventure will never work.

Supposition, supposition, supposition, and you somehow make them add up a fact.


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:11 PM

I never said it was proof of anything, merely a potentiall explanation why this project never seems to get off the drawing board.

I believe the word "anecdotally" was used.

You guys are the ones claiming how things work in the midwest will work here, with absolute certainty.

The demographics are different, heck the geographics are different, things are closer together here.

As far as GWL in the summer.. .the one in the Poconos cuts their rates dramatically in the summer. It's just not as an enjoyable experience as an open air water park, of which there are a lot of around here. This isn't my opinion, it's supply and demand.

No matter how much you want to obfuscate the point, the elephant in the room, is the FACT, that this project never seems to get off the ground. In a capitalist economy, it's typically because the ROI isn't there.

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:19 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:44 PM
slithernoggin's avatar

The only thing I claim with absolute certainty is that you seem to think your opinions are actual facts.

I assume your comment about how things work in the midwest will work back east is based on several of the examples cited?

If I have, on the one hand, several thriving examples and on the other hand I have you, who conjures up facts out of a series of suppositions (remember earlier, when you had a post in which you said "I don't know...I don't think...I'm not sure...My guess is...You probably"?), well, I'm going to with the former. I'm pretty sure there's plenty to be learned from those thriving examples that can be taken out east. Even if the "geographics" are different.


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:56 PM

And you're making a supposition that something that works in Wisconsin or wherever the heck KI is, is going to work on the I95 corridor.

GA doesnt need to cast that wide of a net, in fact, if they do, they are just siphoning off people from another one of their own parks.

Either this plan will attract investment, or it wont. People smarter than you and I will be making that call, but (based on past proposals never amounting to anything) I'm betting it wont. It's going to take more than a shopping mall and a new Applebees for Jackson NJ to become a thriving tourist destination and absorb the cost of a project of this scale.

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:01 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:08 PM
slithernoggin's avatar

"Wherever the heck Kings Island is." Oh my. You are a prize, you are.

This may come as a surprise to you: whole bunches of companies have built things in Wisconsin. And New Jersey. And wherever the heck Kings Island is. And even figured out how to tailor them to the local market, demographics and geography! I know! It's amazing!


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:41 PM
rollergator's avatar

Everyone knows there are two coasts and "flyover country."

From now on, if you're west of PA and east of Vegas...we're just gonna say you're in "FC"...

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:45 PM

You're not acknowledging the possibility that SFGA may already be optimized to this market, and this project may be superfulous.

How good of a business model is it to make GA more crowded than it already is?

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:46 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

You guys are arguing nonsense to a guy that has, by his own admission, been to Great Adventure once in like, 20 years.

Just so you know.

And he's not going to change his opinionfact.

So just make fun of him and move on.


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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:48 PM
slithernoggin's avatar

Sorry. It's just that it's so much fun, like tormenting my cat with a laser pointer.


Life is something that happens when you can't get to sleep.
--Fran Lebowitz

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:50 PM
Bobbie1951's avatar

Anyone who can afford to stay in a $100 plus hotel is obviously in a different income bracket from mine. Because I have to pay for airfare and car rental - plus add on insurance for the car rental because I don't own a car and therefore have no auto insurance of my own - to get to a theme park, I have to cut costs when it comes to accommodations. I wouldn't stay in a Motel 6 again but usually manage to find something between $50 and $70 a night, more often than not an Econolodge. Of course that can have its drawbacks; while the Econolodge in Branson was great, the Econolodge in East Hartford was not. When I found out that the complimentary breakfast consisted of bread, butter (no jam) and coffee with powdered non-dairy creamer I had to make a trip to a convenience store down the road to pick up cereal and a pint of milk. Even so, at $58 it was a bargain. The best bargain I ever got was at Victory Inn and Suites in Muskegon, which was a pretty decent place. To this day I think that they must have made a mistake because my bill for one night came to $39.99.


Bobbie

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:51 PM

Tekwardo said:

You guys are arguing nonsense to a guy that has, by his own admission, been to Great Adventure once in like, 20 years.

Not true.. we went there last year, for a swim team trip.

It's just not a park we choose to frequent. Call it a provincial Phila thing, whereby we hate New Yorkers LOL.

It's the same reason Philly people go to Wildwood, and New Yorkers go to Seaside.. to stay away from each other as much as possible.

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:52 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:14 PM

Aren't Philadelphians and New Yawkers essentially the same people? It seems to me one East Coaster is as rude, pushy and self-centered as the next.

Hey, this is fun. Ignorant provincialism can go both ways....

Last edited by Ensign Smith, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:14 PM

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:14 PM

rollergator said:

Everyone knows there are two coasts and "flyover country."

From now on, if you're west of PA and east of Vegas...we're just gonna say you're in "FC"...

I knew someone would go there.

I'm not claiming geographical superiority, just a difference, which noone will seem to acknowledge. None of the places mentioned have as large of a population to draw from within a 90 minute car drive, therefore a comparison to Wisconsin or Ohio may not apply here.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:16 PM

Ensign Smith said:

Aren't Philadelphians and New Yawkers essentially the same people? It seems to me one East Coaster is as rude, pushy and self-centered as the next.

Hey, this is fun. Ignorant provincialism can go both ways....

They're both in the NFC east. I am in an outter ring NJ suburb of Philly and work in Philly, and can tell you one thing we can all get behind is undbridled hate of all things NY LOL.

For a lot of people here GA is seen as a NY thing...since it sits right at the "mason dixon" line of where you transition from Eagles to Giant/Jet fans (Exit 7a of the NJTP)

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:20 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:19 PM

billb7581 said:
You're not acknowledging the possibility that SFGA may already be optimized to this market, and this project may be superfulous.

How good of a business model is it to make GA more crowded than it already is?

I like beating a dead horse, too.

When will everyone on earth come to the realization, once and for all, that busy is good? Its the preferred business model, always and forever. Who in business wouldn't want to see more and more customers? Busy as can be every single day, that's how I'd like it if I ran the show.

I get tired of hearing people complain when a place is busy- not only customers, but the employees too. Busy is how they stay in business, provide service to customers, and a paycheck to the employees. The really bad day for everyone is when a favorite store, bar, restaurant, or (god forbid) an amusement park goes out of business due to lack of business.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:23 PM

I agree busy = good, BUT, only in conjunction with the customer having a good experience. If you drop 300 bucks and get on 4 rides, I can see that being a problem. (This happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago)

There is an upper limit on how efficeiently you can load people onto the rides and stuff.

If the park is at capacity and all the pay to cut passes are sold out, then the marginal cost of lodging may not make sense.

Last edited by billb7581, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:26 PM
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Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:32 PM

Nope. No there isn't.

Now, there have been days when parks have had to close their gates, ballparks and theaters have had to announce sellouts, and restaurants have had to stop taking reservations. But they never did that with a frown on their face. And you can bet that before doing so they waited, and waited,... and waited until the last possible minute.

And who's dropping 300 bucks for four rides, anyway? If that happens to anybody I dare say it's not the park's problem. For that kind of money I expect FOL access!

And here we go!

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