"The Villan"-Demolition or Relocation

MF trains I always felt would be the answer to The Villan's roughness.

I loved Villain the first day I rode it in 2000. Was hoping I would get 200 laps on the ride, but guess that won't happen. I know a lot of people of complained about it giving them a rough ride, but isn't that the idea of a wood coaster, to be a little jerky and rough. People always said the g-trains sucked, I didn't have a problem with them at all. Hopefully Villain does get saved and relocated somewhere.

After RWB had its re-tracking all done, I enjoyed it. Even with the old Legend trains on it, I thought the ride was faster. Chances are, it'll probably end up in a big pile of wood.

As far as the Big Dipper goes, hard to say. But hey, look at what happen to the Phoenix when it was relocated from its original site. But knowing Cedar Fair, they'll spare all the steel coasters

If CF could sell Big Dipper to maybe Little Amerricka it would serve two purposes.

1. Give Little A a place for their refurbished NAD trains

2. Give CF passholders a stopping place between CP and VF.

Plus it would be a perfect fit and a big bang for the buck at Little A

Just a Idea. I don't think Little A has the resources or the base for a ride like the Lincoln Park Comet. I could be wrong but I don't see it being rebuilt there.

I laughed at Big Dipper when I saw it. Been lauging my butt off since riding it the first time. What a blast for a small coaster. Running right every element works to perfection. Running wrong, Its rougher than SOB and Mean Streak combined.

Chuck

The Villian was once a top 10 woody. I would love to see someone refurbish and install this as it was a great ride in 2001.

I think its the best option of all the woodies there to relocate. Like some have said the steel structure is easier than putting wood all back together. Where it could go is anyones guess at the moment.

As far as raging wolf bobs go, i kinda missed not having it running most of the year, it lasted like 2 weeks but i did fortunately get like two rides on this year. The first half of that ride was really good as far as the pacing was concerned, once it hit the retracked fan curve close to the dominator it lost its way the rest of the ride.

Trains have nothing to do with the condition of Villain. It's not a twister, it doesn't need the fully articulating GCI trains.

The profile is really odd, being a long arc, so you'd need a funny plot of land to put it on. But being steel I would think it'd be easier to move. It would automatically, I think, mean it would be retracked because I don't think you can really pull out those laminated planks and get them to fit just right back together. I'd ask an engineer about that one.

I rode the Villain for the first time earlier this year and wasn't a big fan. I rode in the front seat (which I'm assuming would be the smoothest seat) and was really bumbed with the ride overall. Granted, there were only about 10 people on the train, but it felt like it was just crawling through the course, yet at the same time, had some pretty significant banging. When I rode, the ride provided no major air and very little excitement. Maybe it was just running slow, maybe I just caught the ride on one of its bad days, but I just wasn't impressed...

...on the other hand, I throughly enjoyed Big Dipper and will be very bumbed if that one doesn't get relocated.

Jeff, the track is destroyed when the coaster is dismantled. Also, it is possible to lose 20-30% of the structure itself during teardown and re-assembly.

However, the new German tracks, like on El-Toro, are bolted together. Those may be able to be totally dismatled and re-assembled without much loss.

I know how the milled track works. Not sure why anyone would want that on their wood coaster.

In 2000, I rode The Villain and and I believe I got one front-seat ride and one second-row ride. I remember people had been complaining about the trains before I went, and on the first ride I didn't get it. But on the second ride, I banged my thighs pretty hard into the lapbar on the little bunny hill before the station.

Still, I thought the ride kicked a lot of ass.

This year was a totally different story as I didn't even ride it. After my less than desirable experience with The Boss last year, and seeing that The Villain scored ten points lower in Mitch's poll, there wasn't a chance in hell I'd ever step into one of those trains again, unless it was on the much slower Twisted Twins.

So, I'm going to have to base my opinion on six other people whose opinions I did get. Out of the three other people in my crew, they all said it sucked.

Talked to the guys from the No Limits crew the following evening at CP and all three thought the same thingl. I believe it was Ole Lange himself who got really roughed-up by the ride.

Why would anyone want to take a chance on one of these creations? It's too big, would probably be too expensive to move, and ridership would probably dwindle eventually for whoever bought the ride. Remember Hurricane at Myrtle Beach Pavillion? No one was excited to pick that one up, and it met the wrecking ball. I see the same fate for The Villain.

Villian would run *great* with a set of 2-bench PTC trains. I hear Hersheypark has a couple of trains that might work real nice on the Villain.

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a ride that has been crying out for
*properly* trailered trains since the day it was built (i.e. GCI-style trains), look no further than Raging Wolf Bobs.

I wonder how much adjustability there is with the ledger position on the CCI steel structure. It seems that Villain has a couple of mispositioned ledgers, which would explain the way it bounces down the first drop. Though admittedly, Cedar Fair helped that out this year...it only bounced once instead of three times on the first drop.

Anyway, a relocation would mean all new track. Combine that with a nicely padded train or three, and the Villain would easily be a Top-10 coaster.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Even when it was rough, I loved Villain. The main reason I think that the G-Trains sucked was because of the lapbar. My leg always bashed into the side of the lapbar many times per ride, and it was painful.

I really hope that it gets to go somewhere else. It was always one of my favorite coasters, and to me it was the second best coaster in the park next to Batman/Dominator.

Villian would be awesome at PKI. They could put it in rivertown to compliment the beast...put the station near TR, and have the ride travel towards the waterpark near the train tracks and Whitewater Canyon. OR near the parking lot from Two Face to Top Gun.

???

It could never go at Dorney - where in heck would they put a ride of that size? Besides, there's barely any flat land left there.

I see Dorney as a No No for any wood coaster except maybe Intamin.
The neighbors around there scream everytime a noise comes from that park.

Villain would not go to Knotts as its very simular to Ghost Rider in many ways. Valley Fair, Well they just built a GCII so thats pretty much out. CAROWINDS, KD and CW could use a MODERN wooden coaster.

But ultimately It's the perfect fit for the old OCEANA AREA at CP.

Chuck

I hope it goes away permamently. I hope no one has to suffer through that ever again. It might not be as horrible as Texas Giant, but goodness, this thing was pretty bad.

Villain is a MUCH better ride than MBP's Hurricane was. And it has the benefit of being owned by a chain park which may want to use it at a sister park. However, since CF seems to like the GCI at Valleyfair, maybe it will be moved and GCI-ed...complete with Millennium Flyer trains.

IF they relocate it, I hope they reprofile those long, drawn-out bunny hops and make them into airtime hills. If you're going to go to the trouble to rebuild a woodie, you might as well take that opportunity to fix the dead spots and improve the ride. :)

You guys are hating on the ride for the wrong reasons. If you got to ride it in its first year or two, it was amazing. I remember at the media event people comparing it favorably to Ghostrider even.

Years of neglect hurt the ride. That doesn't mean with a little care it can't be what it used to be.

Visited five times over the past 6 years at Geauga Actually my biggest dissapointment with Villain was in 2000 when it was down most of the day and we got on the third train out when it did run. No airtime anywhere. I never found the coaster rough ever although I'll believe those who got rough rides. it was capable if things weren't maintained.

I'll also mention another thing, Other than maybe saturdays, Under CF the thing probably rarely rode with a full train which creates more shuffle.

Chuck, it's a good coaster. The only detracting I see to putting it in CP is maybe familiarity to it's locals but CP is a better known and bigger draw. Trash Mean Streak for future developent and Put Villain and a couple other rides from Geauga in Oceana :)

I don't want to hate on CF. I'll miss Geauga, Feel they pulled it's really money makers out in their initial plan for Geauga and failed misserably doing so. Im talking Halloween Haunts, Company picnics in Sept. and Some of the Sea World stuff which drew buss loads of school kids (Not I did not say they had to operate Sea World as Sea World but the Aquarium, Ray pools and a Dolphin show along with some concerts or something sure could have GROWN THE BUISNESS.

Chuck

Jeff, I too was blown away by the ride in 2000 and again in 2001. And honestly I don't remember the drawn-out forceless bunnyhops being present on those initial "top-ten quality" rides. Has that aspect of the ride changed over the years or was it always present? I think the ride was much improved (SMOOTHER) this summer compared to recent seasons, but I am still wondering why I loved the thing so much back in 2000 and 2001. Big Dipper has never failed to WOW me though.

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Jeff said:
You guys are hating on the ride for the wrong reasons. If you got to ride it in its first year or two, it was amazing. I remember at the media event people comparing it favorably to Ghostrider even.

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For once, I can quote Jeff and agree. Villain was a fantastic ride in its early years- definitely one of the best wood coasters in the country. I've ridden both the "good" Villain and Ghostrider and I can say that aside from length (the Knott's ride is much longer, or at least feels that way), the two are very comparable.