The physics of snapping the flyers

Monday, January 15, 2007 11:31 AM

SLFAKE said:

SixFlagsKingdaKa said:
A thread dedicated to the breaking of park rules!


Ah... depending on the park.

At PKD the op was yelling at people for "bouncing the birds"


could that be snapping???


At Hersheypark, as said above, they will kick people off of the ride and then run the ride empty for a cycle or two to check for "damage"

more snapping???


But at Knoebels, I have never seen anyone get kicked off. The only "warning" they have is "do not whip the sails". I always took this as quickly "whipping" the sail (rudder?) back and forth... has nothing to do with snapping. As a matter of fact, on Knoebels flyers, the smoother you are with moving the sail, the more snap you can sometimes get.


gee, it would appear to me that all these parks forbid some type of questionable behavior. Could it be snapping? (what else could possibly be the problem?)

snap, whip, bounce, it's all forbidden, and you do it anyway! I guess that's why certain parks watch us like a hawk.


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Monday, January 15, 2007 12:12 PM
Actually there is one ride op at Knoebels who polices it and the rest don't. So is the question is what is excessive and not? I know at PPP when the snapnazi was working there were some awesome snaps. But there were also some times later in the evening with a different ride-op that the same kind of snaps were not even complained about by the op or anything said about them. Go Figure.

By the way it's not how fast you move the sail that makes the snap it's all in air flow and timing. With the right air and the right timing you can make a flyer snap better than people who have the right air but move the sail real fast.


Watch the tram car please....
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Monday, January 15, 2007 12:16 PM

dragonoffrost said:
Actually there is one ride op at Knoebels who polices it and the rest don't. So is the question is what is excessive and not? I know at PPP when the snapnazi was working there were some awesome snaps. But there were also some times later in the evening with a different ride-op that the same kind of snaps were not even complained about by the op or anything said about them. Go Figure.


You call him a snap nazi cause he does his job properly? Go Figure!

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Monday, January 15, 2007 1:54 PM
You're missing the point, Ka. At Knoebels, "snapping" is not against the rules, whipping the sails is. They're not the same thing. In fact, most good "snappers" (I don't consider myself one by any stretch of the imagination) don't have to whip the sails-- that is move them back and forth sharply and quickly-- to get the cables to snap.

By the same token, it's possible to snap without trying. If you have the sail turned to the right angle, are going the right speed, and catch the right breeze, you'll snap and wonder what the hell just happened. Or wonder how you managed to do that and how you could do it again. :)

I suppose the concern some people have is that when the tension in the cable is reapplied and the flyer bounces, it looks like some damage could occur. But it's much harder to damage steel cable than to damage a sail made of canvas or similar material.

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Monday, January 15, 2007 1:57 PM
matt.'s avatar

SixFlagsKingdaKa said:
snap, whip, bounce, it's all forbidden, and you do it anyway! I guess that's why certain parks watch us like a hawk.

If you don't approve of it don't do it? *** Edited 1/15/2007 6:57:49 PM UTC by matt.***

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Monday, January 15, 2007 2:22 PM
Also, at Hershey, depending on the op, even the slightest movement will get you a warning. Move the sail a bit to make the flyer wobble even the slightest... do it more, get thrown off... actually attempt a snap, they would probably call security with the SWAT team backing them up.

Either let them "snap" or make an adjustment so that they can't be snapped (the "rubber stoppers" like at Lake Compounce, the chains like at Sea Breeze).

Hershey seems to view their flyers as a kiddie ride. They may as well weld the sails/rudder in place on there flyers so that all you can do is sit there and go around in a circle.


"Yes... well... VICTORY IS MINE!"
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Monday, January 15, 2007 2:31 PM

RatherGoodBear said:
You're missing the point, Ka. At Knoebels, "snapping" is not against the rules, whipping the sails is. They're not the same thing. In fact, most good "snappers" (I don't consider myself one by any stretch of the imagination) don't have to whip the sails-- that is move them back and forth sharply and quickly-- to get the cables to snap.

quote]

Then why would snap nazi object if indeed snapping is allowed, I think you missed the point.


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Monday, January 15, 2007 2:37 PM

SLFAKE said:


Either let them "snap" or make an adjustment so that they can't be snapped (the "rubber stoppers" like at Lake Compounce, the chains like at Sea Breeze).


How about asking the guests to follow some safety rules? Is abiding by the rules WRONG?

My point is that you're promoting the breaking of park rules, plain and simple! With your reasoning, you're not standing up on a coaster till your knees are locked/legs straight.

The parks make the rules, you should be a responsible adult and follow them, or ask for an explanation of the rules (as Cedar Points safety recordings say)

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Monday, January 15, 2007 3:36 PM

SixFlagsKingdaKa said:


My point is that you're promoting the breaking of park rules, plain and simple!


And my point is that with Hershey's flyers there is no consistency with the ops. Some will allow movement, others will eject riders for the slightest movement.

As stated, if they don't want to have excessive movement (forget snapping... I am just talking movement of the flyer other than the circle), then they should some how restrict the arc of movement of the sail. As stated, Compounce (I think it is compounce) has small "stoppers" that will allow the sail to only move a few inches. Sea Breeze (or was it Canobie lake?) has a chain that is attached to the sail that will only allow a certain amount of movement.

Last time I rode Hershey's flyers (their first year) they had nothing. You had full movement of the sail. Problem is, one op might allow some movement of the sail (resulting in some movement of the flyer) while another op will literally stop the ride if even teh slightest movement is made.

I'm not talking about snapping either.... I am talking about a slight "wobble" of the flyer.


"Yes... well... VICTORY IS MINE!"
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Monday, January 15, 2007 4:44 PM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar There are no stated park rules being broken. If the ride op tells you tone it down, then fine. At that moment, he/she is god (note the little 'g'). Snapping is just a natural movement of the ride. The flyers at Knoebels will snap with nobody on them.

I had no idea that Hershey frowned on snapping until I was asked to not whip my sail (which I wasn't doing by the way, but the ride op figured that's how I was twisting around and snapping. From this point on, I know snapping is not exactly acceptable at Hershey, but I've still yet to see a rule stating that this is not allowed. Unless you see a sign or know the park doesn't like people to do it, how is breaking park rules when you snap the flyers just because some parks (ok perhaps most these days) don't like it when others don't seem to care?


AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

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Monday, January 15, 2007 5:04 PM

SixFlagsKingdaKa said:

RatherGoodBear said:
You're missing the point, Ka. At Knoebels, "snapping" is not against the rules, whipping the sails is. They're not the same thing. In fact, most good "snappers" (I don't consider myself one by any stretch of the imagination) don't have to whip the sails-- that is move them back and forth sharply and quickly-- to get the cables to snap.

quote]

Then why would snap nazi object if indeed snapping is allowed, I think you missed the point.



Gee, K-Ka, why are you asking me? Maybe you should be asking that ride op in person. I'm not a mind reader. While you're at it, ask why he is the only operator of several who work the ride who have a problem with it.

I do know there is nothing posted at the ride saying anything about snapping the cables. Only a sign that I believe says "Please don't whip the sails." Probably because some people thought they had the whip the sails in order to snap and ended up tearing them. Maybe this op thinks people are snapping only because they're whipping the sails.

I wonder whether you are this assertive about breaking the rules with the smokers and line jumpers down at SFGAdv?

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Monday, January 15, 2007 8:23 PM

SixFlagsKingdaKa said:

dragonoffrost said:
Actually there is one ride op at Knoebels who polices it and the rest don't. So is the question is what is excessive and not? I know at PPP when the snapnazi was working there were some awesome snaps. But there were also some times later in the evening with a different ride-op that the same kind of snaps were not even complained about by the op or anything said about them. Go Figure.


You call him a snap nazi cause he does his job properly? Go Figure!


TROLL alert! Troll alert!

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Monday, January 15, 2007 8:54 PM
My bad. I visited Seabreeze and Knoebels on the same 9-day, 11 park trip last summer. I'm afraid I may have got them mixed up. (30+ new coaster credits and more than 100 rides in one crazy vacation will do that.) I must have been thinking of the ones at Knoebels. Sorry.
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Monday, January 15, 2007 10:17 PM
I've never been on any Flyers. There. I said it. ;) I always assumed that they would be just the kind of "Spinny" ride that would make me hurl.

I was ready to bite the bullet and ride the relocated ones at Carowinds the first season they were there but we got rained out. :( I also missed Top Gun that day.


Millennium Force Laps-169 **Vertigo Launches-21** Dragster Launches-53
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Monday, January 15, 2007 10:42 PM
I didn't realize Hershey was so strict about the flyers. I have never tried the flyers there because the line is always very long and if they won't even let you move the sail then I wouldn't even waste my time waiting for the ride even if it was only a 1 cycle wait.
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:12 AM
If they gave you free chocolate for riding like RXCC, then it'd be worth the wait...

...Chocolate...yumm...I wonder why there aren't any coasters with 'chocolate' in the name? (I just checked rcdb, too.. :) )


"Life's What You Make It, So Let's Make It Rock!"
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:41 AM

Charles Nungester said:


TROLL alert! Troll alert!


If this incident was happenning at HW you'd be rallying the troops against the snapper.

Yea i'm trolling, and you and your brother are being thrown off of amusement park rides.... innocently! LOL *** Edited 1/16/2007 10:47:36 AM UTC by SixFlagsKingdaKa***

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:26 AM
Actually, I don't believe HW allows it normally although I have been able to do it from time to time.

Yeah, we were thrown off. for breaking what rules? There are no rules either verbal or in print saying no snapping at parks that clarify no snapping, WE DON't SNAP.

Your just trolling for a reaction.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:45 AM

YoshiFan said:
I didn't realize Hershey was so strict about the flyers. I have never tried the flyers there because the line is always very long and if they won't even let you move the sail.

The line is long for a reason. Unlike Knoebels where the rider can un-buckle him/her self at the end of ride, at Hershey the op has to go around to each individual tub and unlock it. (not sure if they have to lock you in or if the rider can do that).

At Knoebels, I've never seen an op go around and check each flyer to see if you are secure... they simply stand at the controls and run the ride through one full circle at VERY slow speed and "eyeball" each flyer as it passes. If all the belts are secure, they crank it up to full speed.

Another reason why Hershey's flyers may have a long line is because they occasionally run them through a cycle empty as previously stated to "see if they are damaged" if there was any damage from excessive movement.

That is the irony at Hershey. The sails can move, but if you move them and get very much lateral movement, the ride op will throw a fit.


"Yes... well... VICTORY IS MINE!"
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:40 AM

SLFAKE said:


That is the irony at Hershey. The sails can move, but if you move them and get very much lateral movement, the ride op will throw a fit.


but it has nothing to do with snapping? Snapping "IS" allowed but moving the sail isn't!

No, i'm not trolling for a reaction, i'm pointing out how nobody has bothered to establish exactly what is or isn't allowed. Did anyone ask Knoebels if whipping the sails means no snapping? Did anyone ask if bouncing the birds means no snapping? Nope, I can almost guarantee that you waltzed onto the ride and did whatever you wanted. and simply defied the ride op to stop you.

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