StR web cam captures Kinzel insanity

Personally my list:
1. Diamondback
2. Raging Bull, back when the trim on hill 3 barely worked
3. Apollo's Chariot
4. Raging Bull now

Diamondback has Magnum (R) triangle hills which gives it much more forceful airtime then older B&Ms. Back when the Bull was free to roam that thing cooked, hill 3 was gloriously filled with airtime and you just flew through those helices at the end of the ride, now not so much.

Huh? Go look at pictures...other than height there is very little difference between the parabolic shape of the hills on Diamonback, Behemoth, and Intimidator.

Actually, I think the key to Behemoth/Diamondback/Intimidator having more extreme airtime than Apollo's Chariot/Raging Bull/Nitro/Goliath is the new train design. The old train put each row of seats on top of an axle, so as the train peaked each hill, the seats pitched over the top. That's why you get that odd action where just as you are floating over the top, your seat comes up from behind and gently whacks you in the back of the head.

The new train design puts each pair of seat rows on a chord between two axles, so the pivoting action is a little different, a little more familiar, and happens (depending on your row) either just before or just after the peak of the hill. Instead of following the hill profile exactly, there are points where the seat literally drops straight out from under you.

Personally, I prefer the new design. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave always makes me think....not sure if I like that or not... ;)

With the rides featuring the newer trains (Behemoth, D-back, I-232, I find myself more attracted to the front of the train for sustained airtime cresting the hills. But what I love about Goliath and Apollo is the *crunchy landings* at the bottom of the valleys in the back seat, where it feels like the best chiropractic adjustment you could get.

I still say there is also a major difference in the Raging Bull/Apollo/Nitro hill shapes from the newer hypers. I cant seem to find a great picture of this fact though, although it is very noticeable when you are there in person. The new ones (well at least Diamondback) do not appear to have true parabolic curves but instead in more of a peak then the older models.

One thing I like about the older models though was the delayed drop, especially when you can snag a back seat and get ejected down the first drop.

The difference in the shape of the hills has everything to do with the trains. The older 4-across trains have hills that resemble those found on the inverts and floorless rides (accounting for differences in heartline position, of course). Those short trains navigate those more compact hills faster and in more of an atomic fashion. The long trains on these new rides have the more familiar Arrow/Morgan hyper feel, which I think most would agree is a good thing.

I've never been an Apollo fan. Maybe I just got bad rides, but it's my least favorite B&M Hyper (and I rank Bull way above it). I definitely love the new trains, and now I really want to try Behemoth & Diamond Back. I hear Le Goliath is good to, though, and it uses the old trains.

Still, like Gonch, it's kind of 'been there, done that' for me. Granted, I'm a B&Mtimidator fan because it's right down the road from my house, and Goliath at oG is 4 hours south, so I'm just happy to be close to decent coasters at this point.

Talk about a thread hijack, geez. You guys probably broke Carrie's neck at this point!

Getting back to the insanity of StR, my sources are telling me it is THE worst debute of a new attraction at Cedar Point ever. The usual excitement and long lines simply do not exist. Boats are half full and merch is not selling. Debate is occuring about what the "fix" might be to save their multi-million dollar investment.

It took getting in touch with your "sources" to come to that conclusion? :)

I suspect the lack of lines has something to do with the weather being in the 70's this past week, and merchandise probably sells better when a ride is actually, you know, running. StR has been operating for a few days at this point.

I don't think it's quite time to worry about "saving" their investment. We are talking about an attraction that should be around for 30-ish years, after all.

Um, it's a flume. It seriously isn't that huge of an attraction to be making such a fuss over.

Going back to the hijack. It's infinitely more interesting.

Tekwardo said:
I've never been an Apollo fan. Maybe I just got bad rides, but it's my least favorite B&M Hyper (and I rank Bull way above it).

I would have said the same thing (and have) until last week. There was a light rain and for whatever reason Apollo was running like it was cranked up to 11. We got some seriously good rides. I'm not one for riding a coaster over and over again, but we were having an awful lot of fun riding Apollo repeatedly.

I really wanted to like Apollo and Griffin. Both were fun (I liked Griffin pretty well), but was far more happy with Alpengeist & BBW (R.I.P.).

I hope when I go back that I'll like it better. It's the only one I've ridden of the beemers that I just wasn't impressed with.

Griffon was the most pleasant surprise of our whole trip. I hadn't expected much (it's a pretty basic layout), but it's just a lot of fun to ride.

I'd be more interested in going back to ride Griffon again than I would be to ride I305 again.

Grif-Fun is everything I'd hoped for from SheiKra...the only thing "missing" is a walkway for non-riders to get soaked. But the ride itself is such a *vast* improvement over the BGT version. (Of course, Oblivion's tunnel is the real reason vertical-drop coasters should even exist).

Darn it, I'm going to have to make a trip to BGW sometime, and I have Gonch to thank/blame for it. :) I'm also still waiting to hear why Gonch thought SFA was so good.

SFA has a good collection of rides and isn't a bad park. I've never had a bad day there.

SFA is a nice park. It had quite possibly the best employees of all the parks we hit - even if some felt like they were just going through the motions, the motions that SF has put in place (silly things like high-fiving riders) make a positive difference.

I dunno, it works. The price is right - the value is there, the park is really nice, employees are helpful, friendly and empowered to make actual choices to benefit the guest (Cedar Fair - pay attention!), the water park is great (my kids loved it) and the ride collection is decent. (I'm a sucker for the S:ROS coasters)

Seriously, we thought it was the second best stop of the trip behind BGW.

Having been to SFA before and after the Burke years, I think it's definitely on the right path. My only complaints are cosmetic, as some coasters and buildings and rides need paint, and the park could use more shade in the back. But I'm with Gonch, last year, the employees were friendly, and the rides there are good. Love me some ROS, Wild One, and Roar! Joker is loads of fun too.

Lord Gonchar said:
Seriously, we thought it was the second best stop of the trip behind BGW.

Wait wait wait, we are talking about Six Flags America, in Maryland, correct?

My 2002 visit was the worst visit to any amusement park, ever. It would take an act of congress to get me back in that place.

Can someone explain to me exactly why they named 2 coasters, built by 2 different companies Intimidator?

Are they trying to save on merchandise or something?

Jo
Lifetime Raptor flights: 2031 :)