Son of Beast does not get the respect it derserves

SOB is a great ride on paper, meaning the idea for a wooden coaster with a loop is great!. But the Ride itself is very painful.

As Chitown said prior, if your over 6 foot (like i am) forget it as you will have massive knee damage.

That bar right where your knees should be is a killer.

Boss at SFSTL is another painful ride, but not as bad as a wheel seat on SOB.

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rollergator said:
Rattler would move up a LOT in my estimation just by letting the train RUN through that triple-helix rather than CRAWLING thru it...at worst, it'd minimize the amount of time being bored waiting for the real fun to resume...

Sonny would be HELPED by better trains, but I still think it suffers from *layout malaise*...

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Rattler would be helped by that. Once they tried it for about a month. Oh my gosh. Wow they only braked a little. It was so much fun. then they tried no brakes WOW ouch on your sides! It needs the brakes but not that hard.

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Galvan316 said:

Boss at SFSTL is another painful ride, but not as bad as a wheel seat on SOB.

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The thing is when the Boss is running well it's a kick ass ride the calibur of the Raven or Legend with tons of air, laterals and changes in motion.

Have Fun

Paul Drabek

Yes Playa', I do think SOB is one of the best.

The only wooden coasters I would rank above it that I have ridden are Boulderdash, The Comet (TGE) and Jack Rabbit (Kennywood). I haven't been on too many wooden coasters so I really can't jude overall. So, the fact that I took my only rides in the middle seats and haven't been on too many wooden coasters in the first place, I think it's fair for me to say it's one of the best. ;)

I think the ride would have been a lot better if it ended not too long after the loop. That second helix is really slow and that last hill is just pathetic. I really love the speed and power the train has going through the first drop and rose bowl. The loop is the best element on the ride and is a great idea.

I haven't been on too many wooden coasters so I really can't jude overall. So, the fact that I took my only rides in the middle seats and haven't been on too many wooden coasters in the first place, I think it's fair for me to say it's one of the best.

I used to think vanilla ice cream was the best before I tried lots of other flavors. ;)

I'm glad you enjoy SOB and you have every right to rank it as highly as you do but I suspect your feelings will change once you're able to travel more extensively and experience some of the more highly regarded wooden coasters in the US.

*** Edited 3/17/2005 12:32:11 AM UTC by Mamoosh***

I'm not so sure...Some folks just like big ol' helixes.

I rode in the 2nd row two times at last years Beastbuzz, and I didn't find it overly rough. I found it not exciting at all, and my wife loved it. Thats why I had to go on a 2nd time. ;) Otherwise I wouldn't have done that. I was expecting more.

The loop was big and smooth. I thought that was the best part of the ride. Coasters I have ridden that are less than half its size have much better pacing, and a greater sense of speed. That's why it just seemed boring.

I agree with Playa. 20 minutes tops!

*** Edited 3/17/2005 3:48:53 AM UTC by Coasterfantom2***

I rode in the 2nd row two times at last years Beastbuzz, and I didn't find it overly rough.

Of course not...that's not a wheel seat. I've ridden in a middle row and had a fine time. But seriously now...how good can a coaster be when only 1/3 or the rows deliver a satisfactory experience?

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ColumbusCoaster said:
The comments about SOB being rough are expected, but I'm shocked by how many people have said they got really beaten up on it. Not that I'm doubting it, I just never realized it was that rough. I usually ride it at least once per visit, but I have never sat in anything but a middle seat. I guess I've gotten lucky that it hasn't beaten the tar out of me (yet).

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Visit http://www.saferparks.org/database/query_ride.asp and enter "Son of Beast" into the search box. Not many entries, but the ones that are there are a little disturbing. Note that this was after they added the blocks to the floor, but before they added the seat cushion to make up for it...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Holy crap, two broken necks? I'd say the ride gets just the respect it deserves!

On the other hand try a search for Manhattan Express....yikes!

*** Edited 3/17/2005 5:13:05 AM UTC by Mamoosh***

Wow, I knew ME was rought, but not deathly rough. I won't pay to ride it again. It wasn't 'as bad' as people say, but it was rough, though I did enjoy the twist & dive.

When I see SOB I just imangine, what if GCII had that same budget and all that lumber. Their Beast could have had 3 lifthills at 100ft tall and probably 10,000 feet of twisted track!

Basicly to me PKI could do all they want to fix SOB, but you can't polish a turd! *** Edited 3/17/2005 5:48:32 AM UTC by coasterpunk***

Ironically, Dan, Paramount was going to build a Rye Aeroplane Clone first at PKI and if it was a hit clone it at other parks in the chain. That idea was nixed for SOB.

Sad, eh?

Coasterbuzzer said:

Personally, I like Son of Beast. I don't think the layout is boring at all. What could you really do with a wood coaster traveling at that kind of speed? If the layout is so boring, let's hear from the people who think it is boring and what they would do with the layout that would make it better.

*takes the challenge*

Here is my list of my suggestions for what is wrong with / how to make SOB better:

Problem 1) The ride is not a terrain coaster. The original Beast was designed to cruise at high speeds along (and in) the terrain, with minimal airtime. SOB does not follow this tradition.

Problem 2) The ride doesn't use the terrain well. This is different than Problem 1. The ride's lift hill (its tallest point) is place in a valley, thus increasing the wood needed to construct (and therefore the cost as well).

Problem 3) Don't make wood do what its not good at doing. The reason steel coasters can do such outlandish things (inversions, overbanked turns, etc.) is because steel is a strong material. Wood structures naturally 'give' more. This generates problems when you apply high forces to wooden structures (first hill after lift and first helix). That first turn after the lift is so painful partially because you're trying to pull an insanly banked turn high in the air on top of a very giving material. Hense: shake shake shake shake headache.

Problem 4) The rolling stock. Several people have already posted problems/fixes dealing with the trains, so I won't repeat what's already been said.

Suggestion 1) If you're going to make a sequel, relate it in SOME fasion to the original other than the construction material. There is very little about SOB that is like the Beast other than the fact that they're both woodies and both really long (and record breakers). Once you strip away those similarities, they are extremely different rides, and do not impart any sense of a 'father-son' heritage. The Beast only raises high off the ground twice: the two lift hills. SOB deals with its speed by going up, but then turns as well (see Problem 3 above). The Beast is not a 'twister' coaster, and the only place it crosses itself are the first tunnel/second lift, and the return to the station after the final helix. SOB is frequently billed as a 'twister' coaster. The loop is an obvious missing connection, but I must admit that if PKI had pulled it off well, the loop would be a nice touch to sonny to offset it from its father (I, like many, consider the loop the best part of the ride). The REASON the loop is the smoothest part of the ride is because the wood planking for the track is backed by a steel superstructure.

Suggestion 2) Use the terrain and broad, swooping, ground-hugging turns to eliminate the coaster's energy instead of hard-hitting turns high off the ground. While it makes for an incredible structure and an amazing ride on a POV video, it hurts like hell, and just doesn't pan out for a wooden structure. A more terrain based ride with low hills that don't turn mid-crest would be smoother, more enjoyable, and make the ride much more like its father.

Suggestion 3) Use the woods. What made the Beast the legend it is today? Well, whatever your answer is, crazy high-speed night rides through the woods is probably high on the list. When I ride SOB, I don't even NOTICE a tree. I know they're nearby, but I'm too busy trying not to hurt my 6'-2" frame to pay attention. PKI has SOOOOO much wooden terrain on their property. Why would they fail to use any of it for a Beast sequel?

Suggestion 4) Throw in a tunnel or two. This should be obvious (Son of BEAST, remember?).

Suggestion 5) Set up a 4-block, 3 train system that actually works. SOB was supposed to run 3 trains, but with how much effort it takes the ride crew to seat the riders, there is no way to get 3 trains to run on that ride. Hense, we haven't seen 3 trains running.

Suggestion 6) Have some balls and let the park design a ride like the 'good old days'. SOB was farmed out to a designer that was more interested in an impressive structure and a technological showpiece than to accurately continue the tale of a legend. Most of the SOB layout was designed before it was even presented to PKI. The people who run the park know the land around it better than anyone else. That's what helped to made the Beast so great. Instead, land was cleared and a 'packaged' ride was put into place. I know there's a lot of litigation involved in a park designing their own ride these days, but if a park's willing to make a $15 million investment in a 218' pile of wood, I would think designing it themselves would be equally risky.

Suggestion 7) For the love of Pete, put some FOF restraints on that bugger! See previous comments on the SOB trains in this thread.

I'm sure I could think of more, but this is already getting rediculously long. In short, I feel that the ride has far too little heart put into it. It looks and feels like a giant showpiece, and not a labor of love, and I think that is showing through. Thanks to those who actually read through that huge post/rant.

Ah, I feel better now. Is my engineering side showing too much now? ;)

CincyDJ I think that the helices are the link between father and son. A tunnel or two would have been great though. I hated SOB more than most until last season when I got a bunch of rides in 1-2 and I loved it.

I love SoB it's one of my fav wooden coasters people gripe because it's rough well guess what it's suppose to be it's a wooden coaster..wood ages and that makes one heck of a fun coaster.

"...it's suppose to be [rough] it's a wooden coaster..."

Wood coasters, if properly designed and maintained, are not rough.

"...wood ages and that makes one heck of a fun coaster."

SOB is four yeard old. How do you explain that coasters that are 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 years older than SOB are much, much smoother?

I disagree with Problem #1, mainly because I don't want to see a clone of the Beast, which is what it becomes if it follows the terrain, albeit different terrain. Gotta agree with the tunnels, though. Macho Nachos is correct, the link of SOB to the beast is the helices. I believe suggestion six won't work either because back in the good 'ol days, woodies were not over 200 ft. tall, so I don't see how you could possibly design them the same way. As far as the block problem goes, this does not contribute one way or the other to how exciting or not exciting the ride is. The trains are terrible. I'll give you that. What I would like to hear is what out there that is currently available, that could handle SOB. Obviously, they went a different direction than that of the Beast because those trains wouldn't work correctly. Here is a question. Could a wooden coaster have the kind of hills like Millennium Force's second and third hills that have that kind of air time? *** Edited 3/17/2005 4:02:03 PM UTC by Coasterbuzzer***

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MysteryIncs1#Fan said:
I love SoB it's one of my fav wooden coasters people gripe because it's rough well guess what it's suppose to be it's a wooden coaster..wood ages and that makes one heck of a fun coaster.

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Come over here and ride a coaster just as old as POS, I mean SOB; the Legend and I'll show you what a wood coaster is supposed to feel like. *** Edited 3/17/2005 4:30:03 PM UTC by Paul Drabek***

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macho nachos said:
CincyDJ I think that the helices are the link between father and son. A tunnel or two would have been great though.

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I'll certainly give you that. I forgot about the helix connection. I still have to disagree with Coasterbuzzer about the terrain part, though. I (peronally) think sonny would HAVE to be a terrain coaster in order to truly be a Son of Beast. The fact that they would both be terrain based does not, by any stretch of the imagination, make the son a clone of the father.

Here's a topic to start some more debate. Is the Legend at HW more like a sequel to the Raven than SOB is a sequel to the Beast? The Raven is a terrain based coaster (during the second half at least) and relies more on speed and low turns than airtime to give riders a thrill. Conversely, Legend does not hug the ground much. Instead, it relies more on airtime, tunnels, and hard-cutting turns to produce thrills. I would dare to suggest that the way the Legend followed the Raven is similar to the way SOB attempted to follow the Beast (bigger, more foreful, different elements). If you agree with this notion, I feel as though the Legend successfully produced a more intense, yet enjoyable, ride than its predecessor (Raven). Conversely, SOB did not 'successfully' go above and beyond its predecessor.

Thoughts? feelings? four-letter words? I may be comparing apples and oranges here, but it was an interesting thought anyway.