Six Flags gets into hair cuts

You've seen adults on these very forums complain that pay-to-play benefits at parks aren't fair. ;)

You know I don't want to do it all over again, but listen...

Pay-to-cut is a very different story than what we are talking about here. Scam...Conflict of interests...blackmail...ect. I don't want to be accused of ruining a topic because someone decided to slip "that debate" into a totally different topic. That's something I would conider to be "unfair".

ApolloAndy said:
Well, okay there are two things going on in my putt-putt example and I think you're smooshing them together.

Yeah, I am kinda smooshing them together. Mostly because it seems there's two different lines of thought going on here...the two you describe.

1. Brattiness, Courtesy, Manners, etc - I believe the amount of gift or material items has nothing to do with this one.

2. Understanding the value of things - I believe it's entirely possible for kids to learn that and still get things like $45 haircuts or a stack of gifts under the tree or a day of mini-golf for no other reason than 'just because.' There seems to be the idea that kids who get these things never deal with money or understand how far it goes. And I think that goes back to LK's comment:

LostKause said:
I am implying that it's (probably) impossible to buy a child "everything" and instill a sense of value.

You're right. But how often does that really happen?

#2. I think that's something that we all, especially Americans, are behind the curve on. The more we have, the easier it is to take it for granted. I will fully admit that I have no idea what it would be like to live on minimum wage, let alone in a third world nation.

So I think it's possible to learn it to some extent, but the more anyone in any situation has, the easier it is to take for granted - be it a toy at Christmas or the fact that there are still more high paying jobs in the US, in spite of the economy, than there are in most places in the world.

So I guess my "final" conclusion on the $45 haircut is go for it because I'd be a hypocrite to say anything else, but realize how quickly it will be taken for granted if you do it (or things like it) enough.

ApolloAndy said:
But it only teaches one facet of scarcity: "While you're at DW, money is scarce." The purchases they do or do not make don't affect scarcity outside of DW.

Why not? It's teaching about scarcity as a concept, not the amount in anyone's bank account. That's like suggesting that if you're hit in the nuts by a volleyball that you'll forget just because you're in a different gym. (Yeah, experience talking here!)

But isn't that just conditioning, Andy. The more you're around something, then more used to it you get. The more blasé it becomes.

It works in any situation. Live in a neighborhood where gunshots ring out every night and it's no big deal. Live in a neighborhood where gardners line the lawns doing the yardwork and it's no big deal. Go out to dinner every night and it's just what you do. Have hot dogs and lint twice a week as your only meals and that's just how it is.

All that is is commentary on how adaptable the human creature is.

And just because - when did it become a bad thing to be used to what you have?

It's really not that special of an event for me to go to an amusement park anymore. I do it countless times a year. But I remember when that one day at the park every couple of years was a big deal. To be honest, I prefer being in the better situation where I can do th things I want.

I mean, we're talking about Brain's kids having limits...everytime they're at Walt Disney World. Look at the context. That is kind of absurd. I imagine most people would argue that the trips are the 'problem' - not the spending once they're there.

He's teaching his values in the context of what's normal to him. His kids go to Disney World. That's normal to them. Other kids may never get there in a lifetime. But I doubt Brian's kids are spoiled or brats or lack manners or aren't appreciative.

^ Sure, so long as you also teach children that what they have become conditioned to has a price that they will one day have to carry on their own. That is, unless someone comes up with a plan for getting kids alimony when they separate from their parents in order to sustain them in the manner they have grown accustomed to. ;)

But yeah, implementing ideas like Brian's is a way to teach that lesson. Parents just have to be willing to find ways to teach their kids how to sustain themselves in adulthood and stick with the plans. An extravagant hair cutting experience is not necessarily going to undo that education, in my opinion.

The other option for sustaining the "for granted lifestyle" is to sue someone. :-P

Isn't the chorus on this board and more or less everywhere (which I happen to agree with): "As kids grow up they expect more for doing less." That's my definition of a brat.

ApolloAndy said:
Isn't the chorus on this board and more or less everywhere (which I happen to agree with): "As kids grow up they expect more for doing less."

Guilty.

I think more germane is that kids are TAUGHT to expect more for doing less. Those expectations come from somewhere. (NB: I have no children). ;)

Yes, Gator. Agreed. And I don't necessarily think that comes from getting a $45 haircut when you're 7.

I think you could tell by watching the shop which kids are "appreciative" and which ones are...not. Augustus Gloop, Mike TeaVee, Violet Beauregard, and Veruca Salt aren't exactly role models for kids. On the flip side, I was reminded yesterday of a long-ago discussion with my elderly aunt where she pointed out that "adults these days, everybody wants everything whether they can afford it or not - buying stuff you can't afford and putting it on credit was something we just didn't do in my day". (This was around twenty years ago). Well, where are kids going to get that concept when clearly their parents got the Lexus while they're working minimum-wage service-sector jobs, and the McMansion while making under $20/hr.? The *messages* kids take in aren't always the ones parents WANT them to learn...

But I doubt Brian's kids are spoiled or brats or lack manners or aren't appreciative.

Actually, they're regular kids, just like any others---which means they certainly have their brat-like moments.

I meant to respond to this last night, but didn't get to it. Kids are, by their very nature, gigantic piles of (Fruedian) id. The task of parenting boils down to softening the impact of all that id with a nice healthy dose of super-ego, without leaving visible marks that draw the attention of Child Protective Services. ;)

The simplest way to explain our approach to instilling some super-ego is to enumerate the three Noble Family Rules:

1: Life is not fair.
2: You have the meanest parents ever.
3: You are not the center of the Universe.

These three rules, in some combination, answer every childhood complaint I've ever heard. I keep thinking that I need a fourth rule, but it hasn't happened yet.

For example: "Why can't I stay up to watch TV?" Rule 2. "She got to watch a show while I was doing my homework!" Rule 1. "Why didn't she wait for me?" Rule 3.

So you're confirming that continuous trips to Walt Disney World over the years haven't made your kids any worse than a kid who doesn't get to go to Disney World. :)

Jeff said:
But Brian's system teaches value by way of scarcity, and scarcity is the underlying reason for working. Money is a finite resource. Where it comes from is less important than knowing just how much there is.

There are a couple hundred people in DC and a couple thousand in state capital's around the country who still haven't learned that lesson.

Brian - why is it that more parents don't understand those rules and instill them in their kids? You should have the wooden sign maker at Cedar Point carve them up so you can hang them in your house.

John: that's frakking brilliant. A sign!

Gonch: they could well be worse. I don't know how awful everyone else's kids are. Just my own.