Six Flags Announces Nation's Best Theme Park VIP Program
I always figured you adults have to get yourselves ready AND your kids ready, so that would *theoretically* take longer...upon further reflection, among my nieces and nephews, there's two married parents that WOULD have the kids ready early, and two non-married parents that would show up closer to noon... :)
Bottom line: I guess the kids would be chomping at the bit (so to speak), while the parents are either "motivated types", or not....
P.S. How many younger folks see Rob's mention of an *E-ticket* attraction and wonder "WHAT is that guy talking about"? :)
*** Edited 3/28/2007 3:00:40 PM UTC by rollergator***
**edit, I'm wondering gator actually lol *** Edited 3/28/2007 3:07:14 PM UTC by P18***
Do we need to educate some younger Disney fans about E-tickets and all that? ;)
One of the cool things was that my oldest sister was a member of the Magic Kingdom Club through her employer, and this got us booklets of *only* E-tickets.
I realize that this is the way things are nowadays but that doesn't make things "right". Money has always separated things to a certain extent but it's much more prevalent in modern society. Like I said many pages ago- airlines, rental car companies, amusement parks... how long will it be before grocery stores, the post office and car repair shops start selling people the ability to buy things/get things done quicker, thus screwing people that are also paying, just not as much? I spent 20 minutes on line at the post office a few days ago and I know I'd be mad as hell if the USPS "sold" someone a spot in line ahead of me, increasing my wait time from 20 minutes to 25 minutes (since the average USPS customer seems to require 5 minutes at the counter). I'm sure the other people in line would complain too. And if that's wrong with people, why is it okay to do that with theme park lines?
I don't like Disney's system because it doesn't benefit me. :)
I wish I could tell you guys the last time we got to a park at opening. (on a non-event day) We NEVER hit the gate at opening.
Using Brian's Soarin' example, if I get to Soarin' less than an hour after park opening (say 9:45) that's pretty much the only FastPass I'm getting for the day. That's not a virtual queue system. That's free tickets good for one non-wait ride for people who arrive at the park within the first hour. Big friggin whoop!
That's also where I get the 'random lottery' thing from. 45 minutes is the difference between getting maybe two, three or four FastPasses for the day and getting one. Granted, it's not truly random, but there's some big difference based on some little times. Even worse is that maybe the demand for FastPasses at another ride was less (or the distribution ratio was higher) and if I had headed another direction, I'd have gotten an earlier time and could've particpated in the system further. There's so many variables that it feels like a 'random lottery' to me.
With the pay system, everyone is treated equally and the system is equally available to everyone who wants to pay (and I can use it all day at my discretion).
Ironically, my reasoning (still being guilty of doing exactly what the anti-q-bot crowd was accused of) is that it truly is meant to be that 'escape' from real life. Which to me has nothing to do with money and everything to do with not having to be a slave to the alarm clock.
And if Gator can argue that ANYONE can get to the park early (and as I *think* I established - in my mind at least :) - that still doesn't really guarantee much without additional research and knowledge) then I argue that ANYONE blowing the kind of money it takes to go to these big parks these days can save/budget just a little more and partake in the pay system if they feel it necessary. With none of the hassles of playing on someone else's schedule or additional research and knowledge of the inner workings of the system. The time it takes me to cover that is possibly (probably) worth more than the cost of a pay system to me.
On one hand, it made me think a little more - so thanks for that guys. On the other hand, Disney's way of doing it doesn't feel more fair or any better than the pay setup to me.
And on a totally unrealted note:
Rob said:
An Acura dealership is going to treat you the same whether you bought a $28K TSX or a $50K RL
I'd even disagree with that. There might be little difference in your particular example as the difference there isn't much. (not even twice the price) But I do certainly think there'd be a big difference in treatment if you went into the Beemer dealer and bought a $32,000 BMW3 or Z4 and if you went in and bought the $122,000 BMW7. In fact, I'd pretty much guarantee it.
Rob Ascough said:
I realize that this is the way things are nowadays but that doesn't make things "right".
Are you using "Right" and "Fair" interchangably? I could see a case where it isn't "right" (even though I disagree) but I still don't see how it could be argued to not be fair. After all, you get exactly what you you paid for (a crappy day at the park).
*** Edited 3/28/2007 5:23:18 PM UTC by ApolloAndy***
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
Lord Gonchar said:The time it takes me to cover that is possibly (probably) worth more than the cost of a pay system to me.
....LOL, and here we are back at the argument of "What's your TIME worth". I'm arguing more and more that what your time is worth to you is LARGELY based on how much you can get for it (for most, that's closely tied to an hourly wage)...
But yet, there's ANOTHER side to it...my time is worth MORE to me when I'm on vacation in, say, SoCal, than it is to me when I'm taking in a day at USF/IoA, since they're LOCAL to me and I incur no added expense/vacation time to get there...
And on the third side of the coin.... ;)
"The effort it takes me to cover that is possibly (probably) worth more than the cost of a pay system to me."
It's not even about time in this case, it's convenience. I can spend however long scouring the net looking for ways to play the free system correctly or I can just show up as I please and drop a few bucks and reap the same beneifts.
Again, it's about that escapism thing, I guess. For some that means monetary concerns, for me it means the difference between 'working' at something and just vegging.
Lord Gonchar said:
I wish I could tell you guys the last time we got to a park at opening. (on a non-event day) We NEVER hit the gate at opening.
Neither do we. Two, maybe even three hours after opening? That's us.
That's also where I get the 'random lottery' thing from. 45 minutes is the difference between getting maybe two, three or four FastPasses for the day and getting one. Granted, it's not truly random, but there's some big difference based on some little times. Even worse is that maybe the demand for FastPasses at another ride was less (or the distribution ratio was higher) and if I had headed another direction, I'd have gotten an earlier time and could've particpated in the system further. There's so many variables that it feels like a 'random lottery' to me.
Brian's post made sense, but you're off base regarding FastPass. While it's true that the people that arrive at the park earlier will theoretically accumulate more FastPass tickets throughout the day, I will day that the Magic Kingdom was extremely busy on Saturday but there were FastPasses available for ALL the popular rides up until late afternoon, and popular rides like BTMRR and Splash Mountain were still giving out FastPasses at 10:30 at night- 90 minutes before the park closed. Throughout the course of the busy day where we started at Animal Kingdom and ended in the Magic Kingdom, we had at least 8 FastPasses, and we didn't plan our day around getting any of them. If we happened by a FastPass machine and the timing was right, we picked one up. That simple.
Additionally, so what if you only get one or two over the course of a day? That means there may be a FEW people that somehow managed to get three or four, but so what? You got on that many more rides without waiting more than a few minutes. How does anyone lose in that kind of situation?
With the pay system, everyone is treated equally and the system is equally available to everyone who wants to pay (and I can use it all day at my discretion).
Not really. Only the people that paid for the system are treated to the ability to cut in line and ride more. The people that paid the minimum amount to get into the park stand in line like a bunch of chumps.
And if Gator can argue that ANYONE can get to the park early (and as I *think* I established - in my mind at least - that still doesn't really guarantee much without additional research and knowledge) then I argue that ANYONE blowing the kind of money it takes to go to these big parks these days can save/budget just a little more and partake in the pay system if they feel it necessary. With none of the hassles of playing on someone else's schedule or additional research and knowledge of the inner workings of the system. The time it takes me to cover that is possibly (probably) worth more than the cost of a pay system to me.
Again, I disagree. We're not talking a little bit of money- it's not like people can buy a Qbot with the change they find under the mats in their cars, we're talking quite a chunk of change above and beyond the already-outrageous prices. People shouldn't have to feel it neccessary to spend that much more to get a decent experience- a $65 ticket to Great Adventure or Universal Studios should provide an acceptable experience without having to upgrade. It goes back to what I've said about parks needing to put more emphasis on fixing operations so that lines decrease, rather than ignoring the obvious issues and coming up with ways to get people to pay more money so they can circumvent the problems that exist.
On one hand, it made me think a little more - so thanks for that guys. On the other hand, Disney's way of doing it doesn't feel more fair or any better than the pay setup to me.
How is that? It's a free system that can be used by anyone that already paid to get into the park. It may not be perfect but at least everyone is on common ground. You can't stand in line for Tower of Terror and groan at the people walking by with FastPass tickets because there's an excellent chance you'll be doing the same thing with your Rock 'n' Roller Coaster FastPass an hour later.
I'd even disagree with that. There might be little difference in your particular example as the difference there isn't much. (not even twice the price) But I do certainly think there'd be a big difference in treatment if you went into the Beemer dealer and bought a $32,000 BMW3 or Z4 and if you went in and bought the $122,000 BMW7. In fact, I'd pretty much guarantee it.
You might get a bigger smile from your salesman, or perhaps he'd return your call a little quicker, but having interacted with my BMW dealership many times, I know that is not the case. The service department responds to a 330 owner like they do a 750 or Z8 owner.
*** Edited 3/28/2007 6:11:59 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
...I will say that the Magic Kingdom was extremely busy on Saturday but there were FastPasses available for ALL the popular rides up until late afternoon...
Exactly. They run out by late afternoon. My FastPass that I picked up at Soarin' (within an hour of park opening) isn't good until 3:12. By the time I ride Soarin' and get to another ride I'd like to FastPass...well, there's probably not any left. I was rewarded with one no-wait ride for showing up early. I'm not impressed. Let me sleep another hour and kill the system. It's not working.
Not really. Only the people that paid for the system are treated to the ability to cut in line and ride more. The people that paid the minimum amount to get into the park stand in line like a bunch of chumps.
And only the people with the correct knowledge and timing are treated to the ability to cut lines at Disney. The rest get to wait in the stand-by lines like chumps.
The difference? With the pay system everyone has the choice to pay-to-play or not and then use the device at their choosing. With FastPass, everyone gets different opportunities and then has to play by Disney's schedule. It's not even close in my book. Q-bot offers more, offers more freedom and offers it to all who want to take that opportunity.
You can't stand in line for Tower of Terror and groan at the people walking by with FastPass tickets because there's an excellent chance you'll be doing the same thing with your Rock 'n' Roller Coaster FastPass an hour later.
If I can't groan at a 'chance' then there's even less reason to groan at an outright opportunity. You can't stand in line for Nitro and groan at the people using Q-bot because you (at any moment in the day) can go get one and do the same thing. I might get a FastPass. You can get a Q-bot.
(and 'chance' sounds a lot like 'lottery' to me ;) )
There's just a difference in perspective here. To me time/effort/knowledge/luck is a more discriminatory dividing line than money - especially considering the 'luxury' tag that I think it makes sense to apply to a trip to the park and the idea that I should have to expend additional effort to enjoy myself.
To me it's a money thing to begin with (if you're blowing money on the park, you have money to blow) and the sense of purpose to get away for the day (to leave life's responsibilities behind and not worry about making schedules, researching systems and fretting over whether or not I make the next ride in time to get another FastPass).
I don't expect you to suddenly take my side of things, nor do I think you expect the same. :)
In my little world, the pay system works better for me and feels like it offers everyone the same opportunity whereas the free setup is very restrictive in use and discriminatory in exactly who even gets the chance to partake.
(so in summary, I think the GP is full of unlucky morons and if you're wasting money on amusement parks in the first place then wasting a little more shouldn't be an issue ;) )
Disney's way of doing it doesn't feel more fair or any better than the pay setup to me.
That's been my argument all along. It's not more fair, because they are both completely fair---everyone has the same offer made to them by the park. In one case, pay to save time, or not. In the other, spend time in advance to save time in the park, or not.
And, as I said way back in the thread, the pay system is actually more flexible and, depending on your earnings power, more or less favorable. You can invest your time learning about one specific park's nuances. Or, you can invest that same time earning more money---the park knowledge is useful only for that park. The money is useful for a lot of things.
Truth be told, I'm a total idiot for spending as much time learning about amusement parks as I do; it would be much more cost effective to spend that time on my consulting business, and use the resulting income to buy VIP experiences. But, it's a hobby. ;)
Gonch----------Brian-----------Rob
----------------Gator--------------
(I loves ya all! :) )
The difference? With the pay system everyone has the choice to pay-to-play or not and then use the device at their choosing. With FastPass, everyone gets different opportunities and then has to play by Disney's schedule.
Not different. Everyone has the same opportunity to get there early, and to learn. The information is out there. There is even a site that has pre-digested the information for you, and will sell it to you for $20. www.tourguidemike.com So, for $20, you can know everything you need. You still have to get up earlier, though. (Note: I have no affiliation with tourguidemike; just a satisfied customer.)
And, Gonch, here's a freebie: if your return time is more than two hours away, you don't have to wait until your FP window opens to get another FP---two hours max to the next one.
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