Six Flags Announces Nation's Best Theme Park VIP Program

Yeah, I think you're right.

It makes the q-bot for one the same price, but once you add more people prices have gone up over the past two season. I wouldn't expect any less. :)

My apologies to your mother, Gator. ;) (although it seems I'm on to something)

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Some states are richer than others, I always thought that was pretty obvious. But just because a state is at or near the top doesn't mean it's a spike.

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Yah, you are right, I made a snap observation. I guess what really interested me was how the income went up so drastically from 3 peeps to 4.

Now keep in mind however, that for the most part, I actually agree with Lord Money Bags. ;)

Anyway, an interesting analogy can be found down here in the SoCal "carpool" lanes. If you pay a fee, you can use the "carpool" lanes to skip past everyone else in line.

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Lord Gonchar said:My apologies to your mother, Gator. (although it seems I'm on to something)

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Since I was the seventh, I guess I shouldn't complain TOO much about her having so many kids...

Addng on to jf's post...."user fees" do seem to be the wave of the future. So for those who don't think money should be the *deciding factor* on who gets what (I'm a fence-straddler), it's going to be a long long ride - might want to put on a *restraint*.

edit: Important to note that my positions are often self-contradictory...I grew up in one household that had money and no money at different times. But mostly, I view things as an economist - we follow our own paths, LOL.
*** Edited 3/26/2007 7:41:04 PM UTC by rollergator***

Three-person families may just as likely be single-parent households with two kids as they are two-parent households with one kid. And, perhaps less so for four person households.

Those numbers don't tell you # of children, just # of people. So, it's hard to draw much of a conclusion from them on this question.

What about the Northeast's toll-road linejumping system? Everyone seems ok with that. (I've been reading this thread to much and the name escapes me at the moment, but I think it's actually called 'Fastpass')

Basically, you pay A FEE for the transponder, which then reads the RF info as you drive by, without even having to stop at the tollbooth. They even have some interchanges with "highway speed" lanes that you can blaze through at 55mph, so in theory you don't even have to slow down... unless you were speeding to begin with ;)

Some people may argue that they're paying the same tolls. But there is a yearly fee for the device you mount on your windshield that is non-refundable. The only way it works out monetarily is if you have a rewards card with cash back and you spend at least that much in tolls that gets billed to your credit card (when I looked into it 2 years ago, I would have to spend $300 in tolls in a year to break even... or 100 times round-trip for what I'd been using it for)

Granted that it's not (yet) the high prices at the SF parks because they want to encourage adoption, but I can definitely see that price going up gradually over the next 5-10 years as people get so used to using it that they just pay it. Meanwhile, the turnpike commission lays off workers and drop it to only 1 or 2 non-pay-to-cut lanes thus driving up the demand more. Sounds familiar, no? :)

Edit: For Gonch's benefit: $600/wk * .29 = 174 / 4 = $43.50... wow, that's scary. That's just about spot on for what I'm willing to spend in a single day when I go to a park. I'll usually take $40 out of the ATM, and that's that. Granted, I don't have to pay admission because I have the chain passes which have already been paid for, so that's primarily money used for parking and food, with an occasional hoodie or other merchandise as a gift for a friend. *** Edited 3/26/2007 9:31:28 PM UTC by dannerman***

It's called EZ-Pass. It is used in PA, NY, NJ and a number of other states with toll roads and bridges.

I would say that families with larger numbers of children tend to have a single earner and more than likely a stay at home mom. So that cuts your income right there.

I wouldn't say families with more children tend to be of a lower economic class and uneducated. Many of them have simply decided that maintaining a certain status or lifestyle isn't for them. Some who have determined that a certain status or lifestyle IS necessary do whatever it takes to not have to dilute that income by bearing and raising (any or more) children.

I've known some rather educated and well-off people who couldn't seem to figure out that engaging in certain activities will result in the old bun in the oven.

But, back to the food. Whether it's the VIP-ers themselves or their perky young escort getting the food, do they jump to the front of the line, do they wait their turn (highly unlikely since that may be too long a wait for someone who's paid a premium price), or are their special food service locations for VIPs only?

The funny thing about EZ-Pass/Sun-Pass/Fast Lane is you don't affect the regular toll queue in a negative manner. You have a separate lane, and you just speed past people waiting in the regular lanes. But, by using the RFID lane, you're making the regular queue shorter, thus making the overall wait for EVERYONE less. Isn't that what GAdv is doing with their parking tolls this year? They're automating them somehow - not sure how though. EZ-Pass would be a great idea though since practically everyone in the tri-state area has an EZ-Pass.

Also, the EZ-Pass/Sun-Pass/Fast Lane systems don't cost anything (except a minimal deposit on the RFID unit - usually $20 or so).

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Whether it's the VIP-ers themselves or their perky young escort getting the food, do they jump to the front of the line, do they wait their turn (highly unlikely since that may be too long a wait for someone who's paid a premium price), or are their special food service locations for VIPs only?

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Ideally, she'd just go into 'the back' of said establishment and get your food. The line never even notices that someone got served in front of them.

This way VIP's can still choose to eat wherever they'd like, there's no wasted costs or lost revenue associated with a food stand/restaurant that only a handful of people a day would frequent and there's no messiness with getting them to the front of the line.

No idea how it'd work for real.

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halltd said:
You have a separate lane, and you just speed past people waiting in the regular lanes.

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Wait, that sound just like q-bot.

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But, by using the RFID lane, you're making the regular queue shorter, thus making the overall wait for EVERYONE less.

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But under the same logic, then wouldn't q-bot users also not be standing in line, thus making the regular queue shorter in length?

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The funny thing about EZ-Pass/Sun-Pass/Fast Lane is you don't affect the regular toll queue in a negative manner.

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I'd say it does. Roadways have a capacity, just like rides. X number of cars can pass in a certain amount of time. If you have people zipping through with no stop they're using up that capacity - even if you got in line before they did.

In turn, it would take longer for the 'stand-by' toll booth lines to move due to the traffic ahead. Your spot in the traffic on the highway just got pushed back by someone who didn't have to wait in the same line you did.

Even worse, when I was on my way up to SFNE, I had to pass thru NYC (well, I later figured out that I didnt have to but that's what mapquest told me :() and when we got to some bridge, there was a big ass back up for ppl waiting to pay tolls. While at the same time, there were the EZ pass lanes going mostly unused (it was a Saturday so I guess less daily commuters). To me, this seems the exact analogy to the route that rablat encourages SF to take: dedicated toll lanes (train rows) for the EZ (flash) passers.

Gonch is right, its the same thing.
lata, jeremy
--lucky to be well above the median income in NJ...even though I live in VA

See what you all need to do is get an I-pass from IDOT it involves:
-No fee
-Automatically recharges to $50 when you get below $10
-Is able to be used on EZ-Pass Systems
-50% off all tolls in Chicago

^^^ If its bumper to bumper traffic, then sure, I'd agree with you. I guess I've lived outside of NYC for too long. LOL!! But, in Florida, the only "queue" is for the toll lanes. After the toll plaza, there's no traffic 90% of the time, so the Sun-Pass cars just keep moving. Therefore, the cars that needed to stop to pay actually waited in line less. Also, when you get out of the queue for paying, you just keep moving again, no more waiting. But yes, you're right - in the instances where there's LOTS of traffic (say the Holland Tunnel), you are saving time by bypassing the people who have to pay cash. But again, free system, so I'm ok with it. Also, if everyone had the EZ-Pass, I believe the overall queue for the tunnel would move faster. Obviously slower than the current EZ-Pass lanes, but faster than the pay lanes. The reason it takes so long now is the amount of time it takes to process money and give receipts. If you eliminate this time by using RFID, the lines can just flow through. The only delay you'd have is because of the capacity of the tunnel. But, the excessive delay (stopping, looking for money, paying, waiting for change/receipt, asking directions) is all eliminated.

I don't think EZ-Pass or any of its counterparts really shortens the lines for people paying cash.

The argument is that the people whizzing (or crawling) through the EZ-Pass lanes mean exactly that many fewer people waiting in the cash lanes. This only is true if they've kept the same number of cash lines and operators, and added additional EZ-Pass lanes. This isn't true anywhere I've seen in any state. Usually all but a couple of the lanes have now been converted to EZ-Pass only.

100 cars through 5 lanes = 20 cars per lane.

50 EZ-Pass cars through + 50 cash cars through the remaining 2 cash lanes = 25 cars per lane.

Of course I don't know the exact statistics because I'm not as much of an antagonizing statistics monkey as Gonchar, but at least to my observation, the cash lines have gotten longer because the majority of lanes cater to EZ-Passers since it's more financially viable for the state.

Should I add this thing :) or maybe a ;) so LG knows I still like him? (I mean, like him, but not LIKE like him.)

Man, you really are GEEKS!

Chuck :)

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kpjb said:Of course I don't know the exact statistics because I'm not as much of an antagonizing statistics monkey as Gonchar, but at least to my observation, the cash lines have gotten longer because the majority of lanes cater to EZ-Passers since it's more financially viable for the state.

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On this I have to side wholeheartedly with Gonch. Then again, an Sunpass transponder is 25 bucks, and all you need is a credit card to charge to...you get discounted tolls, and you can go 25 (or so) thru the toll lanes WITHOUT stopping, needing change, or waiting in lines. There are also some places where you don't have to slow down AT ALL and they record your tolls.

You save money - most states give you discounts on tolls, from what I see here .You save gas, which is great for everyone (and the environment, for Goresters like me). You save time, which is good for you. If you're going to have toll roads in your state (and who doesn't), GET one of those gadgets. It is win-win-win, and that's a better deal than you get *anywhere* else.

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But, in Florida, the only "queue" is for the toll lanes. After the toll plaza, there's no traffic 90% of the time, so the Sun-Pass cars just keep moving.

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True. But that then applies to the parks as well. As long as there are less people wanting to ride than the ride handles, there's no problem and q-bot users actually make the stand-by line shorter.

Of course, there'd be little reason to use a q-bot on days like that, but the core idea is there. If there's less traffic (or riders) than capacity, then there isn't a problem (or need) for either system. But the second things reach capacity, they both work exactly the same way and have the same effect on the lines, waits and priority.

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kpjb said:
I don't know the exact statistics because I'm not as much of an antagonizing statistics monkey as Gonchar...

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Yeah, we won't hold that against you. :)

Statistics monkeys RULE you! ;)

EZPass (or whatever it is in your state) isn't there to shorten lines for the people paying cash, it's there to convince you to get one and NOT stop to pay tolls. Worked on me... :)

Oh, and once I am elected...or whatever...your toll gizmo will work NATIONWIDE. Why should your Cedar Fair or SF pass work everwhere, bt you have to stop to pay tolls once you cross state lines?
*** Edited 3/27/2007 1:32:19 AM UTC by rollergator***

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Lord Gonchar said:
Ideally, she'd just go into 'the back' of said establishment and get your food. The line never even notices that someone got served in front of them.

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But then how often can you use the words "Ideally" and "Six Flags" in the same sentence?

And who says it's going to be a "she" fetching the food? Pretty sexist talk there Gonch. :) But even if she (or he) went to "the back" you still have to assume the workers will drop whatever they're doing to take care of the VIP order. Unless it's somehow ordered ahead of time for pickup at a certain time.

So, I guess it's just a matter of time until SF starts using their own version of EZ Pass so they can collect that $15 parking fee even faster.

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Lord Gonchar said:True. But that then applies to the parks as well. As long as there are less people wanting to ride than the ride handles, there's no problem and q-bot users actually make the stand-by line shorter.

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I disagree - but then again, what's new? :) You can't really compare road capacity with coaster capacity. They're not apples to apples. I would agree if you were to say the toll plaza itself is like the ride. Then again, there's still no comparison. Even if I said EZ-Pass was like VIP, its not because you're not "riding" by stopping at the toll plaza. So, you're not affecting the "capacity" of the toll plaza because you've bypassed it altogether. I honestly don't see how a Q-Bot could make a standby line move QUICKER than normal. That's just crazy talk. But, in the case of toll-plazas, you ARE making the capacity of the toll plaza greater because you're skipping it totally.

Take the Lincoln Tunnel for instance. The only reason the tunnel backs up is for the toll. Why you ask? Because an incoming three lane road widens to about ten lanes to pay a toll. Then everyone has to scrunch back down to 2-3 lanes to get through the tunnel. That's where the problem exists. If you HAD to use EZ-Pass, there'd be no reason to have a plaza at all. Just install the RFID readers over the existing road and the traffic would flow right through the tunnel.