Six Flags Announces Nation's Best Theme Park VIP Program
Coaster Junkie from NH
I drive in & out of Boston, so I ride coasters to relax!
Rob Ascough said:Consider this: You pay $100/night for a hotel room. That normally includes everything- parking, bed linens, electricity, etc. Imagine that some crafty hotel owner comes up with a plan to charge people $500/night for a "VIP" experience that includes everything plus mints on the pillows, a free bottle of wine and twice a day maid service, and in an attempt to convince everyone that they should buy the service, he starts charging extra for the things that were once included: parking is extra, bed linens include sheets but not comforters and electricity is limited to a certain wattage. If people want what they once got for $100/night, they either have to pay extra or they have to upgrade to a VIP room package. Is that fair? It doesn't sound fair to me.
It's not fair that a hotel that once offered things for free now charges for them? Really?
It might be a dumb business move, but it seems to me that the seller can offer whatever bundle of goods at whatever price he/she wants. The consumer has the choice to buy the good offered at the price offered. There's nothing unfair about that. I can offer my belly button lint for $40, but if you buy it, you can't complain that the price was unfair. If you don't like the goods offered at the price, don't buy.
What about a hotel that used to offer a room for $50 and now charges $60? Is that unfair?
What about a restaurant that used to offer free valet service and now charges $1 for it?
What if Holiday World decided to charge $1 for parking? Or if LC decided to charge $1 for sodas? Would that be unfair?
Is your argument stems that the park is somehow deceiving the guest.
Or is your argument that "It's always been one way and it's unfair when the park changes things to a new way that's worse for me."
(And I won't stoop to arguing against you with "It's going a good business decision so just deal with it" as others seem to do. As I've said a bajillion times, while that line may true, it has nothing to do with the fairness issue.)
*** Edited 3/22/2007 11:54:31 PM UTC by ApolloAndy***
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
Charles Nungester said:
Ok, Next time Im at a park, I'll just jump the rail near the rides entrance and say, I WAS VIRTUALLY HERE for the last 2hrs.See if I don't get kicked out. WHY? Because I didn't spend the extra $50 bucks for that privilege.
Chuck
Wow! I seriously think that I will try that next time I go to a SF park (maybe in 2015, lol). You keep going like this and you may replace Bear as my hero.
I'm saying it's a bad business decision to take things away from customers that they're used to paying, unless you lower prices and start offering stuff a la carte. What would happen if a car company suddenly started taking features out of a model while maintaining prices or increasing them? I guarantee you that customers are going to take their business elsewhere. People don't want to get less for their money, or worse yet, less for more money. That's pretty simple to understand. And when it comes to Six Flags and other park operators taking services away while increasing prices AND offering better services for even more money, sooner or later people are going to respond with their wallets. Again, I think that's pretty simple to understand.
I agree that some things can- and should be bought with money. Valet parking at fancy restaurants. Shoe shines at the airport. Golf carts at country clubs. But a place in line? I'm sorry- maybe some of you have pretty low expectations when it comes t stuff like that- but I don't think that anyone has the right to buy someone's place in a line. It shouldn't happen at grocery stores, it shouldn't happen in emergency rooms and it shouldn't happen at amusement parks. Comparing a place in line to a material object isn't comparing apples to apples because you're comparing something that everyone can (hypothetically) purchase to something that the company is selling yet doesn't own in the first place. Sorry, but when I set foot in a line, that's MY place in line- not the park's to sell. And compare that to all the other stuff you want, but you're talking about something entirely different.
I don't mean to sound like a broken record but I get the feeling I'm not making any sense. And maybe I'm not... but I'm stubborn!
Comparing a place in line to a material object isn't comparing apples to apples because you're comparing something that everyone can (hypothetically) purchase to something that the company is selling yet doesn't own in the first place. Sorry, but when I set foot in a line, that's MY place in line- not the park's to sell.
You know what? I disagree with that on many levels. Surprise, huh? :)
They do own your spot in line. They can tell you exactly where to stand in that line, which lines you're allowed to stand in,how long you'll be standing in that line and what you're allowed to do while standing there...
..and they do.
I still believe 100% that your park admission only buys you the right to stand in their lines...under whatever rules they choose to govern those lines by. It guarantees nothing beyond that.
Rob Ascough said:
I'm saying it's a bad business decision to take things away from customers that they're used to paying, unless you lower prices and start offering stuff a la carte. What would happen if a car company suddenly started taking features out of a model while maintaining prices or increasing them? I guarantee you that customers are going to take their business elsewhere. People don't want to get less for their money, or worse yet, less for more money. That's pretty simple to understand. And when it comes to Six Flags and other park operators taking services away while increasing prices AND offering better services for even more money, sooner or later people are going to respond with their wallets. Again, I think that's pretty simple to understand.I agree that some things can- and should be bought with money. Valet parking at fancy restaurants. Shoe shines at the airport. Golf carts at country clubs. But a place in line? I'm sorry- maybe some of you have pretty low expectations when it comes t stuff like that- but I don't think that anyone has the right to buy someone's place in a line. It shouldn't happen at grocery stores, it shouldn't happen in emergency rooms and it shouldn't happen at amusement parks. Comparing a place in line to a material object isn't comparing apples to apples because you're comparing something that everyone can (hypothetically) purchase to something that the company is selling yet doesn't own in the first place. Sorry, but when I set foot in a line, that's MY place in line- not the park's to sell. And compare that to all the other stuff you want, but you're talking about something entirely different.
I don't mean to sound like a broken record but I get the feeling I'm not making any sense. And maybe I'm not... but I'm stubborn!
You just equated theme parks to cars and said other forms of entertainment are incompatable, as I said on another thread (which Gonch, showing how much he loves threads started by him he cant stand any comptition closed ;)) amusement parks are entertainment, and there are numerous examples of more money=better service. Besides the ones you mentioned I will also add movie theatres (more $ at night, no coupons for new releases) and live shows/sports (price based on who is playing and where you are sitting.) Theme parks are no different.
On top of that, were all enthusiasts here which means we know how to "do parks" with the least amount of wait time possible anyways. *** Edited 3/23/2007 3:13:31 AM UTC by Touchdown***
2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando
dannerman said:
See This Post for an in-depth explanation of why it's NOT line jumping. Everyone is *STILL* waiting. They're just not forced to wait in the physical line. But they're STILL WAITING!
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Umm...Yes it is line jumping. It's line jumping because someone VIRTUALLY waiting in line can also be physically waiting in another line. The only way to effectively get two or more rides in the same amount of time it take everyone else to get one ride is to cut in line, therefor it IS line jumping.
Line cutting is against the rules because it makes everyone else's wait longer. What does allowing some people to wait in two or more lines at the same time do to regular park guests? It forces them to wait longer. A ride only has a certain capacity, right?
ApolloAndy said:
^^^ and ^^
But you guys are really aruging that it's not fair that some people have so much more money than other people (which I can see a couple of good cases for).
You're not really arguing that it's unfair that Six Flags happily takes money from people who have a lot of it.
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I think the REAL argument here is that SF is forcing an unfair system on their "guests". Sure it's not fair that "guests" are not guaranteed the same amount of service that they used to get before Lo-Q came about, but that's not the argument here.
RollerCoastin!!!! said:
I feel that anyone who pays to get in the park should be treated the same as everyone else.
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Me too.
P18 said:
It's why I choose to not visit their parks, simply because IMO, there are better parks to spend my money on. If they make a fortune on it, I guess good for them.
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I agree. Pissing off the "guests" wouldn't be worth any amount of profit if I was running a park. There are many other choices when planning to go to a theme park. I put all SF parks at the bottom of my priorities because of their association with the Lo-Q company.
And finally...
Brian Noble said:
...As the pay-to-cut systems spread...
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you know only a few parks have picked up Lo-Q's "line management system" to be able to scam their "guests". I believe that there are a lot of parks, like HW for example, that understand that their "guests" are a lot smarter than Lo-Q believes. That's why there's such a "Lo" number of parks picking up the "Q" management from these guys.
Another words, I don't see this becoming the norm for the majority of theme parks
EDIT...added some ------------- to separate me from them.
*** Edited 3/23/2007 3:31:58 AM UTC by dexter***
I'll get back to you on the customer hostile practices. :)
Lord Gonchar said:
I still believe 100% that your park admission only buys you the right to stand in their lines...under whatever rules they choose to govern those lines by. It guarantees nothing beyond that.
I agree 100 percent with this. And look, no one is being fooled here, you know exactly what your risking when you enter a Six Flags park. I still believe that their piss poor operations are the *real* evil here, and maintain that if it's done right, you hardly notice a difference. If someone wants to spend their hard earned money to save a place in line so that they squeeze more into their day, more power to them.
For everyone else, if the system runs the way it's suppose to, it's shouldn't affect your day very much at all. If it's not, it's not the system, it's the park's failure to execute. *** Edited 3/23/2007 3:32:50 AM UTC by DWeaver***
Charles Nungester said:
Ok, Next time Im at a park, I'll just jump the rail near the rides entrance and say, I WAS VIRTUALLY HERE for the last 2hrs.See if I don't get kicked out. WHY? Because I didn't spend the extra $50 bucks for that privilege.
Chuck
Ok. You do that.
And the next time I go to Hersheypark, I'm going to jump the fence at the entrance and offer to pay $1.00 to ride the Comet without paying admission.
That is how the rule used to be but see if I don't get kicked out. Why? Because I didn't spend the extra $50 bucks for that privilege.
- Jeff
And finally...
Brian Noble said:
...As the pay-to-cut systems spread...-------------
you know only a few parks have picked up Lo-Q's "line management system" to be able to scam their "guests". I believe that there are a lot of parks, like HW for example, that understand that their "guests" are a lot smarter than Lo-Q believes. That's why there's such a "Lo" number of parks picking up the "Q" management from these guys.
We'll see. So far, no one who has pay-to-cut has gotten rid of it. And other parks that used to have free-cut (Universal) or fair-queuing (Dollywood) have added it. Disney looks like they *could* be, too, though that's very uncertain. It may be slow, but it's happening.
The question still boils down to: do you lose more through customers getting annoyed and paying to implement/staff pay-to-cut than you gain by increasing the satisfaction of other customers who just happen to pay more money in the process? Six Flags doesn't think so, and you could write that off, as they've made a number of other blunders. But, Universal doesn't think so either. And, perhaps most importantly for our community, neither does Dollywood, which until this happened was one of the "good" parks.
There are other examples too. The Dine-with-Shamu program at Sea World parks. The character meals at Disney parks. Take a stab at what it costs a family of four to eat with Cinderella in the Magic Kingdom. With tax and tip, it's more than most guests paid in admission.
Uncle Coaster said:
Charles Nungester said:
Ok, Next time Im at a park, I'll just jump the rail near the rides entrance and say, I WAS VIRTUALLY HERE for the last 2hrs.See if I don't get kicked out. WHY? Because I didn't spend the extra $50 bucks for that privilege.
Chuck
Ok. You do that.
And the next time I go to Hersheypark, I'm going to jump the fence at the entrance and offer to pay $1.00 to ride the Comet without paying admission.
That is how the rule used to be but see if I don't get kicked out. Why? Because I didn't spend the extra $50 bucks for that privilege.
- Jeff
But either way your being treated the same as everyone else. They POP as well as YOU.
Mine is a example of the park allowing people to break their own policies if your willing to pay more for it
Brian Noble said:
And finally...
Brian Noble said:
...As the pay-to-cut systems spread...-------------
you know only a few parks have picked up Lo-Q's "line management system" to be able to scam their "guests". I believe that there are a lot of parks, like HW for example, that understand that their "guests" are a lot smarter than Lo-Q believes. That's why there's such a "Lo" number of parks picking up the "Q" management from these guys.
We'll see. So far, no one who has pay-to-cut has gotten rid of it. And other parks that used to have free-cut (Universal) or fair-queuing (Dollywood) have added it. Disney looks like they *could* be, too, though that's very uncertain. It may be slow, but it's happening.
The question still boils down to: do you lose more through customers getting annoyed and paying to implement/staff pay-to-cut than you gain by increasing the satisfaction of other customers who just happen to pay more money in the process? Six Flags doesn't think so, and you could write that off, as they've made a number of other blunders. But, Universal doesn't think so either. And, perhaps most importantly for our community, neither does Dollywood, which until this happened was one of the "good" parks.
There are other examples too. The Dine-with-Shamu program at Sea World parks. The character meals at Disney parks. Take a stab at what it costs a family of four to eat with Cinderella in the Magic Kingdom. With tax and tip, it's more than most guests paid in admission.
Brian, Those are services not INCLUDED with Addmission and your cutting in front of nobody by doing so.
In fact, I'd argue that the Cinderella meal is *exactly* the same as having two trains on the big coaster, where one is available only to people who bought flashpass.
In each case above, you can get something included with admission (waiting in line for a ride, waiting in line for Cinderella, seeing Shamu for a few minutes from your seat in the stadium) or you can pay to improve the quality of experience (not stand in line for the ride, not stand in line for the princess moment, spend more time with Shamu.)
Then again, on the flip side, if it is "safer", it probably means you'll have more competition...which means shrinking profit margins. I know all about that working at the HP Photosmart printer division.
So I suppose I wouldn't say that your business rule is a good one, but I wouldn't say it is a bad one. I'd just say choose your poison.
(I didn't mean Hershey Park). ;) *** Edited 3/23/2007 2:11:57 PM UTC by janfrederick***
Charles Nungester said:But either way your being treated the same as everyone else. They POP as well as YOU.
Mine is a example of the park allowing people to break their own policies if your willing to pay more for it
No, they aren't. They are allowing people to wait in a different line that happens to get to the same point faster. Huge difference there.
- Jeff
the park allowing people to break their own policies
Not this year's policies. Last year's policies. This year, the rules are different. Rules can and do change. If you want to insist that rules should never change, then we have to get rid of POP and season/annual passes, too. You don't get both sides of the argument.
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