Six Flags Announces Nation's Best Theme Park VIP Program
Will Koch will not take this lying down. The park will stay family friendly but more thrill rides and some steel coasters could be in the parks future. The big thing, however will be stronger theming and that continued friendly atmosphere.
Another thing that could help SFKK is that it is not as crowded as KI. SFKK will probably remain a mid-sized park given the market size there but that could change especially if they can start drawing more visitors from Ohio and Tennessee.
Arthur Bahl
And your rule of buisness leads to bankruptcy.
Tell that to anyone who sells a 'luxury' product. To keep it relevant - tell it to Discovery Cove.
Seriously, Chuck. You have to understand that price isn't all that matters. Otherwise no one selling anything for more than the lowest price would stay in business.
Nobody said anything about only paying 10 bucks to get in. We said We don't want to pay 60 bucks and be charged another 50 bucks for WHAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY INCLUDED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Neither did I, it wasn't a literal example. But since you want it that way I'll use your numbers.
"I'd rather have 10 customers paying $110 (60+50) than 18 customers paying $60"
The 45% decrease in customer base means I use less effort, money and resources to provide the equivalent experience for the same revenue. That means even higher profit and a better chance at 'wowing' the guest. Win/win. :)
And besides, you're getting what the admission supposedly includes - entrance to the park and the ability to wait in all the 'stand-by' lines you want. Where's the mystery?
Did you know the 4 coaster package that Geauga got was actually slated for SFKK?
Will Koch isn't going to do anything to COMPETE with any other park. Will Koch is going to do whats best for HIS PARK and I have all the comfidence that He'll continue to make the right decisions as he has for over 10 years now. He's almost raised attendance over 800,000 at that park in that time frame.
Chuck
Lord Gonchar said:
Tell that to anyone who sells a 'luxury' product. To keep it relevant - tell it to Discovery Cove.
And how many of those parks have been built since it opened?
Charles Nungester said:Will Koch isn't going to do anything to COMPETE with any other park.
As long as Holiday World shares a market with other parks (and it does, with several) then Holiday World is already in competition, like it or not.
It's not like Holiday World, or it's owners operate in some sort of magical bubble where other parks don't exist. *** Edited 3/21/2007 8:32:05 PM UTC by matt.***
Rob Ascough said:And how many of those parks have been built since it opened?
Totally irrelevant. How many parks of *any* kind have been built since Discover Cove was built?
By the same logic, if Holiday World is the end-all, be-all enthusiast wet dream, how many parks have been built like Holiday World since 1995 or so?
And how many of those parks have been built since it opened?
None.
What's the point? Is that supposed to make the fact that the business model works irrelevant?
In other words, how many "cost is really no object" people are there out there? Enough for 50 or 60 parks to worry about satisfying only the premium paying crowds and still make profit?
Could any park or any entertainment venue really survive on Gonch's business model of 10 percent of the crowd paying 10 times more to get in? (Or even 50 percent of the crowd paying 50 percent to get in). Fill the sky boxes while the rest of the arena or stadium sits empty?
Even if the park were collecting the same amount of revenue, it would look and feel awful dead with only a fraction of the people inside. Besides, if there were only 10 or 25 percent of the people there, it doesn't mean you need only that same percent of maintenance workers, ride ops, food service workers, etc. Unless they intended to run an ERT type schedule-- this ride open from 10-12, this one open from 12-2, etc.
Coaster Junkie from NH
I drive in & out of Boston, so I ride coasters to relax!
It still takes the same amount of people to serve less drinks? It still takes the same number of people to serve less food? It still take the same number of people to clean less mess? It still takes the same number of people at the gate to move less people through?
How?
In other words, how many "cost is really no object" people are there out there? Enough for 50 or 60 parks to worry about satisfying only the premium paying crowds and still make profit?
It's not about 'cost is no object' customers. (although I'd bet that number is much higher than you think)
It's about finding the best balance. That's not always the most people at the best price. (in fact, in the case of non-essential items or non-commodities - I'd argue that it's never the best approach)
Maybe you can pull of 10% at 10x the cost? Maybe for your business it's 50% at double cost? It might even be just 10% less with a 10% increase.
SF pulled it off last year. They did 12% less attendance and brought per cap up 13%. On the top line they broke even. It's not even a question of if it could work...it did work.
And it does work every day. $400 hotel rooms sell right alongside $40 hotel rooms. BMW's sell right alongside Chevys. Designer clothes sell right in the face of $5 T-Shirts. $60 amusement parks draw millions of people while 'free' parks wish they'd see those numbers.
"5 billion served" is only one way to measure success. I'd be happier with 5 billion in my pocket than 5 billion through the door.
The one about saying SF pulled it off, and it did work. I'll call that a draw. They've raised the expectations of what customers will pay (as well as the reality of it, LOL), and done THAT successfully. Just processed my SFoG pass, 75 w/tax. I still can't complain too much, esp. since SFoG is one of the good parks. More to the point (THEIR business) Atlanta is a metropolitan area, and they can certainly get 75. The old guys were leaving TONS of money at the gate....
But they can't continue to lose 12% attendance/year indefinitely either. And while alot of that loss WAS due to the previous regime's mismanagement, some of it WAS due to "pricing out" the market that was least profitable anyway. If they really want to find the *best balance*, where profit is maximized as is customer satisfaction, they have plenty of (relatively cheap) staff doing what we've always wanted them to do: run rides, clean restrooms, and staff the food and beverage locations FULLY. Do that, and hold steady at the prices that they're getting now (which, BTW, did end up reflecting the markets they were located, NOBODY in Oklahoma City pays $15 to park in a grass field, LOL), and the parks should be full enough of people willing to pay enough to bring the chain closer to breaking even...which I'm told is success by virtue of "exceeding expectations".
You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)
Brian Noble said:
So, this thread has gone on for 11 pages, and as far as I can tell nothing new has been said that wasn't already said the very first time SFI increased their day-visitor gate prices over a year ago (or was it two?).Some people care more about price than breadth of offering. Other people don't. The price-conscious are never going to be convinced that a few extra bucks here and there doesn't matter to some people. The price-tolerant are willing to ignore the cost of something, within reason, as long as they personally see value in the experience; they believe there are enough people "like them" that these parks can make a go of it.
A reasonable person could hold either point of view, and neither side will convince the other that they are wrong.
Dude, quiet with that kind of reasonable talk. There are some of us who are enjoying this! :)
Hi
Lord Gonchar said:
Tell that to anyone who sells a 'luxury' product. To keep it relevant - tell it to Discovery Cove.
That's not keeping it relevant. Discovery Cove is a park designed to cater to the "luxury" market and that market alone. People are used to paying a premium at that park because paying a premium has always been the one and only way to visit that park. As for Six Flags, it's not the kind of place that people regard as premium.
A few years back, VW tried selling a gussied-up version of their bread-and-butter Passat sedan with a W-8 engine for $45K. You know what they found out? That no one wanted a $45K version of a car they could usually buy with a smaller engine and less features for half that price. It's easy to get people to pay for a Porsche with a tiny engine and a low price tag, but it's tougher to get people to pay more money for a souped-up family sedan. Has anyone ever stopped to think about the long-term ramifications of this plan?
I agree with Gonch in that it's better to make $100 from one customer rather than $10 off of 10 customers... except what happens when those wealthy customers have already spent their money? Maybe paying more money for more service is the way of the future, but it seems to me that the "bread-and-butter" customers are much more plentiful and those are the ones a company really has to work on keeping in the long haul. Going back to car examples (cars are one of those things I know), Honda dealers love having that sexy little S2000 roadster in the showroom to pitch to those customers with disposable income, but the things they're most happy about? Those average-looking Accord and Civic sedans that people buy by the hundreds of thousands. My point? It's all well and good to offer a premium product, but that shouldn't come before making sure the average customer is well taken care of. With virtual queing, is the average customer being taken care of as well as they should? After all, the average customer is being cut in line by customers more willing to spend a ton of money.
And to respond to that person that asked me how many non-Discovery Cove parks have been built since then, I count: Bonfante Gardens, Celebration City, Wild Wild West, Hard Rock Theme Park and that park in West Virginia, to name a few. That sounds like a lot more "regular" parks than premium parks, doncha think?
rollergator said:
The last two paragraphs are "hot".
You want me. :)
The one about saying SF pulled it off, and it did work. I'll call that a draw.
Ok.
They've raised the expectations of what customers will pay (as well as the reality of it, LOL), and done THAT successfully.
Indeed!
But they can't continue to lose 12% attendance/year indefinitely either.
Yeah, but that's not part of the plan, I imagine. (nor is it a feature of Gonch's business model)
And while alot of that loss WAS due to the previous regime's mismanagement, some of it WAS due to "pricing out" the market that was least profitable anyway.
Yes and yes. It's why I still think they're on to something. That whole 12% attendance loss wasn't theirs alone, but the 13% per cap increase was.
If they really want to find the *best balance*, where profit is maximized as is customer satisfaction, they have plenty of (relatively cheap) staff doing what we've always wanted them to do: run rides, clean restrooms, and staff the food and beverage locations FULLY. Do that, and hold steady at the prices that they're getting now and the parks should be full enough of people willing to pay enough to bring the chain closer to breaking even...
Yup. And getting spending in line won't hurt either.
Like the ride lines, my time has value to me...otherwise you couldn't sell VQing in the first place.
Gonch has his rules of business...one of mine is "NEVER make someone wait to give you money". :)
edit: ROFL, I see Moosh couldn't resist the innuendo that I (for once) did manage to elude... ;)
*** Edited 3/22/2007 3:44:18 AM UTC by rollergator***
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Mooshie said:
Gator better get in line...and without a VIP pass or Qbot!
Gator said:
Gonch has his rules of business...
Yeah, I'd rather do one of you for $100 than both at $50 each.
(see how much sense it makes ;) )
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