Shift in Thread Trend?

Africa? I can see how the theme requires it. Asia and, especially, Discovery Island? Not buying it.

And, Epcot is STILL a moonscape, Studios is concrete as far as the eye can see, and MK isn't known for it's abundance of shade trees, either.

Right, but those parks were never meant to have trees. At MK, the atmosphere is in the architecture. Epcot is kinda like a World's Fair so there's no need for trees there. Ditto a fake movie backlot like the Studios. But a regular park that's located on what was once a tree-covered peninsula? That shou;d have some trees. Great Adventure managed to build on a tree-covered plot of land and retain most of them.

No, you don't get it both ways. After all, there were plenty of trees where Epcot was, too. It was literally bulldozed front to back, as was the MK. So, you *like* the artificial world created by Disney, but don't *like* the artificial world created by CF. But, Disney is BY FAR the more guilty of paving over everything in its path.

I also don't get how the World's Fair doesn't need trees. There are no trees in other countries? Huh?

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Rob Ascough said:
Dorney went from being a fairly large park with nice, friendly atmosphere to an even larger park completely devoid of character and charm.

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I was going to offer a response, but it was just easier to cannibalize Walt's as the following is pretty much what I would've said anyway. (just change 'Cedar Point' to 'Dorney' :) )

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Gemini said:
I guess everyone has a different definition, but "bland" isn't the word that comes to mind when I'm at Cedar Point. The design of Cedar Point's wide-open Main Midway was intentional. They saw the advantages to having the open space. I think the landscaping and overall appearance on that midway is nicely done.

A narrow midway carved through the woods is not the only possible option for an appealing atmosphere.

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Rob Ascough said:
But a regular park that's located on what was once a tree-covered peninsula?

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But when was that? The criticism is aimed at Cedar Fair's current practices, but Cedar Point's largest midway was in place more than a decade before Dick Kinzel sold his first cotton candy cone.

No to come off as a Disney apologist...but...

In 1993 Disney bought 8,500 acres south of their property to mitigate the wetlands they were demolishing with expansionon property. The 8500 acres was a ranch that had been logged and taken out of it's natural state.

Disney recreated the wetlands at a cost of $40 million and it is now a vital wetland sustaining, among other things, the rare bald eagle.

On property, Disney has set aside 7,500 permanent conservation easements that will forever remain in their natural state.

So, while they could do more, let's say they could do less too...or nothing as others have done in the name of growth.

If Cedar Point amusement park weren't on that peninsula today a housing development would be and that ain't exactly environmentally friendly either.

I don't even know why we're comparing Disney's Florida parks to Cedar Point. WDW was built on land that was really a bunch of nothing (likely ecological importance aside). Sure, Disney parks lack trees, but there were never trees to begin with. Cedar Fair parks, on the other hand, seem to experience a slashing of the forest when a new ride moves in, as if cranes can't lift pieces of rides over the tops of trees. That's all I'm saying.

What's with all the tree hugging? ;)

Just going by what CF has done with Knotts, I'd have to agree. CF has not only pulled out a lot of shade giving trees, they've also paved over most of the charm the park had to offer. That park now has about as much "down home" charm as an LA freeway. What Cedar Fair has done to knotts comes very close to a travesty and honestly, if Six Flags continues on their quest to improve their parks, 5 years from now there will be no question as to my choice between the two parks (SFMM has so many trees it's no contest).

1) Ghostrider has officially become Mean Streak junior (that was the goal right?)

2)Steel track sticks out from almost every angle of he park, with big, gapping graveled areas where dirt and grass used to be.

3)Ghost town is being destroyed little by little, year by year, which I'm sure will be replaced over the years with more steel track.

I know some people like that park (at least when compared with SFMM), but from someone who has grown up visiting at least once a year, it's a mess. Knotts has gone from being a very distinctive park with lots of personality, to a charmless place that is a crashing bore to visit. The park just seems to be going through the motions. Mrs. Knotts chicken tastes stale, and the yearly Haunt feels forced. *** Edited 8/13/2007 9:54:30 PM UTC by DWeaver***

I can understand clearing trees in the main area of most parks, because I get the feeling of I'm a kid in a candy store. That is to say I look all around me and have to decide where to begin. As far as Knott's is concerned, I would have to agree they made a big mistake in cutting down that many trees. However, I still favor most CF parks. CP has done an ok job keeping some of the trees in the back of the park. No matter what we say. I still think it boils down to the rides, and nothing more.

B&M!

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DWeaver said:
if Six Flags continues on their quest to improve their parks, 5 years from now there will be no question as to my choice between the two parks (SFMM has so many trees it's no contest)

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Maybe parks should start marketing their tree counts instead of their ride counts.

I can see it now:

"More trees per square foot!"

"They've got rides, we've got shade!"

:)

Even I can't buy picking SFMM over Knotts...

...for the trees.

That's priceless.

I think it goes beyond just the trees. It's Cedar Fair's general design philosophy. Durability and ease of maintenance appear to be the primary motives behind their design decisions. Concrete, metal roofing systems, cinder block, and diamond plate are the hallmarks of a Cedar Fair design.

The problem is that it can come off as sterile and at times a little harsh. Yes it's clean, but sometimes I like my amusement parks a little dirty (whoo-hoo!). That's usually where the charm is. I don't mind a million layers of paint, a crooked fence, or a few leaves on the ground.

I'm not saying every Cedar Fair addition is like this, but they clearly have a specific look and feel they are trying to achieve. I just wish it included a little less concrete and steel and a little more love.

^Exactly BBC.

There isn't a single point in my post where I even hint that SFMM is better because of trees. Get a grip. ;)

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There isn't a single point in my post where I even hint that SFMM is better because of trees.

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Really?

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if Six Flags continues on their quest to improve their parks, 5 years from now there will be no question as to my choice between the two parks (SFMM has so many trees it's no contest).

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*** Edited 8/14/2007 4:21:12 AM UTC by Brian Noble***

Oh come on, I know you're smarter than that.

Point one:

"if Six Flags continues on their quest to improve their parks, 5 years from now there will be no question as to my choice between the two parks".

Side note (having to do specifically with the *tree* discussion above):

(SFMM has so many trees it's no contest).

My goodness, does every post need to be completely spelled out and explained point by point now? ;) *** Edited 8/14/2007 5:08:33 AM UTC by DWeaver***

Honestly, I was surprised the first time someone claimed that the price of a Coke at the park can affect their enjoyment of their day.

But the quantity and location of trees affecting their level of enjoyment?

Nothing surprises me around here any more. :)

Time to update the "all I've learned" statement.

...

All I've learned from reading CoasterBuzz is that enthusiasts want a cheap drink in the shade.

(which sounds like a lazy afternoon in the backyard to me)

And before I forget:

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WildThingNative:
So the real answer to my question is due to horticulture?

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That was way funnier than it got credit for.

I think that may just be the real answer to your initial question - Evil, money hungry, class creating, price raising, legalizing line cutting, capitalist pigs win over the guys who cut down trees every time. :)

As you are crossing over to Millenium Island on MF...take a look to your right. The 4th tree in that little alcove really pisses me off.

I think it is a Dogwood.

If they don't do something about that tree (trim it for heaven's sake) then I'm never coming back.

;-)

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But the quantity and location of trees affecting their level of enjoyment?

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My kids once spend ten minutes in Cedar Point playing with the cottonwood detrius. It was off in a corner of Frontiertown, and a big pile of cotton had formed---it was like the world's largest dandelion.

If I think of it, I'll try to dig up a picture. It was pretty funny.

Found one.
photo.

Edited to clean up link. *** Edited 8/14/2007 12:39:30 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

Check out these pictures of Dorney Park:

pic1

pic2

pic3

pic4

Of course, I picked photos that support my argument- there were plenty of photos that showed nice trees and other kinds of landscpaing. But for every nice area like the Thunderhawk's turnaround, there are a few ugly areas like Hydra's hillside and the main entrance midway. Does it matter? Probably not. Dorney Park will still turn a profit, and I'm sure that is all that matters to some of us.

Maybe I'm just maturing as an enthusiast. Years ago, we'd travel around to parks to spend a few hours and ride as many coasters as we could. It didn't matter that some parks weren't the prettiest places in the world or didn't have much to offer aside from coasters- satisfying our need for adreneline was all that really mattered. But now as my wife and I are getting older and our free time is diminishing, we expect more of parks. I want to go to the parks with the best collection of rides, the most flawless operations and the most pleasing visuals. That last part probably sounds silly, but it matters a lot to us. We spend too much time driving along northern NJ's endless commercial strips with their concrete and metal buildings loitering in the middle of barren parking lots. I don't want to spend time and money at an amusement park to see concrete and metal loitering in the middle of barren fields and midways.