Shapiro's SFKK visit

Ok here's my rant. When I went to SFKK this spring I was actually shocked with the friendlyness and the state of the park at that time (granted this was before the kids got out of school and tore the place to hell). The buildings and rides could use a touch up on paint, and I didn't see very many characters, but the crews were pretty fast and my friends and I actually talked to several of the ride ops and they made sure we were having a good time. Thunder Run is my favorite operating woodie (god bless the Screechin' Eagle), although I haven't ridden many the ride was running great that day and I loved it.

I think with some touching up some friendlyness and evenutally some new attractions SFKK would become a small well-rounded park. There steel is pretty decent, T2 was awesome when I rode it the first time, this past visit not so much, and their wood would be awesome if they could calm down the Twins a little, they were a little rough last time I rode them. /end rant.

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"Where is there a place that DOESNT charge admission on a go cart track??? If there is a place, please let me know cause I'll need to visit it!!"

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Celebration City.

Non-upcharged go-kart action?

Funtown in Maine...but Excalibur is where the FUN is, that thing was amazing, even early in the day. They had two go-kart sessions included with the POP bracelet, IIRC

Swooshy, guess that means it's mostly parks with amazing woodies? ;)

I'll get my Mt. Olympus on later this Spring... :)

*** Edited 2/2/2006 7:04:10 AM UTC by rollergator***

Both PKD and BGW run promotions periodically that include all-you-can-eat lunches and ocassionally they'll toss in a t-shirt. Price Range? $20-40 usually.

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Lord Gonchar said:
A family of 4 could get in rides as usual, eat & drink all day, do something like the skycoaster and/or the climbing wall and walk away with 4 t-shirts for under $400.

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One month later... The credit card bill shows up. "I paid $400 for a lousy trip to a SF Park" says the household engineer responsible for paying the bill. "I'm not doing that again"!

$400 or...

4 admissions at gate price = $240
Parking = $15
One climb on the rock wall = $5
Two skycoaster riders = $30
4 T-shirts at regular price = $75
2 Souvenir cups refilled 4x = $30
1 Meal for 4 and the usual daily snacks = $40

(note: considering the average family of two adults and two children making a single trip a year with generous rounding of the prices)

So you save 35 or 40 bucks and don't have to limit your drink or food in any way for fear of actually spending money. :)

Still seems like a deal.

Hell, toss in one on-ride photo to the package deal and make the savings an even $50.

What I'm saying is, when the credit card bill shows up a lot of people might forget what that $400 bought them.

I agree with your logic.

They'll be even less understanding when certain services are temporarily unavailable... as in, the Family's favorite coaster is down for the day, despite them paying top dollar and travelling a hundred miles to get there. *** Edited 2/2/2006 2:21:30 PM UTC by Fun***

Well of course the whole "Day of Fun" package goes right into the crapper if the family doesnt have fun, but that's not Goncher's point at all. It's bad enough that you have to put out a big expense one time at the gate, but it can seriously impact your day if you feel like you're always grabbing for your wallet. Psychologically, it feels better when you're not constantly outlaying cash even if the overal price is about the same.

That's why credit cards are so popular. It feels less like spending *real* money. That's why parks like Disney let you charge everything on your room key if you stay onsite. If you're not going to the ATM is *feels* like you're spending less. LG is going the ulimate route: Pay upfront and leave your wallet in the car.

Truth be told, I think that "Pay one Price" parks are likely a gyp for the consumer. I'm not sure, exactly, how you price the rides but using Knoebels all day rides and coasters price ($33.50) andthe highest priced ride Twister @ $2.20), you'd need over 15 rides to break even. Sure, this might be fine @ Knoebels, but imagine trying to get in 15 coaster rides @ Cedar Point. Sure, an enthusiast who knows the crowds patterns might, but the average Joe Sixpack, who gets in the park in the morning and heads straight for Raptor (when the line is longest) likely will not. But Joe likely prefers paying upfront and not worrying about change or tickets like at the carnival.

So I think LG's option has some merit. Hell, I'd likely use it!
lata, jeremy

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2Hostyl said:
It's bad enough that you have to put out a big expense one time at the gate, but it can seriously impact your day if you feel like you're always grabbing for your wallet. Psychologically, it feels better when you're not constantly outlaying cash even if the overal price is about the same.

LG is going the ulimate route: Pay upfront and leave your wallet in the car.

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IMO, two things are possible here:
1) We've all been drinking the same stuff that Dave A. has in his cooler...
2) More likely, we really DO "get it", and know this industry better than some would have us believe.

I prefer to think it's #2... ;)

PERCEPTION is everything, and it you think you got a good deal on a good day at the park, you'll likely return, and even more importantly, spread the word amongst your friends, neighbors, co-workers, relatives, etc. that the local SF park has changed for the better...

If you leave thinking you pulled out your wallet more often than you pulled down on ride restraints, then SF has left the frying pan only to jump into the fire...

Just my take... :)
*** Edited 2/2/2006 4:10:46 PM UTC by rollergator***

That's an interesting marketing plan. I'd be curious to see how well paying upfront and not paying for almost anything in the park would hold up....sounds kind of risky to me. What if many people really took hard core advantage of this? They'd have to make the price of admission high enough to prevent that from having any major effect on their budget.

'Gator, I like to think I fit into your #2 category, too... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Whose cooler is full of oddly-shaped bottles filled with brown liquid and bubbles...

Not me. I'm clearly in group #1. ;)

1) I'm sitting here in amazement that Gonch failed to add in another hundred or so for Q-bert. :)

2) Six Flags would surely go out of business once enthusiasts hit the food stands at these proposed all-inclusive parks.

3) I don't think the GP has an idea what they spend during a day at the park. I think if you asked most people, they'd say no way they spend $100 a person, even if they do. I think expecting them to shell that out up front is more of a shock than a series of 20 and 30 dollar charges would be.

4) I think you folk are exhibiting some enthusiast thinking now. The idea might be great for people who hit just about every ride, including the upcharges, and buy the souvenir cups, etc. But I don't think it would take long for the GP to start harping that they don't eat as much as others, they don't ride all those rides, etc., so why should I have to pay for them? It's one thing for someone to perceive they're being taken advantage of by a business. It's a whole other thing to perceive you're paying for somebody else's good time.

I really didn't mean to pull this thread so far off course. Just having fun with the new pricing at SF.

I apologize to those of you who were discussing Shapiro's stop at SFKK.

RGB, Q-bot wouldn't need to be $100. Heck, the thing only costs like $10 a head in the park.

But your point #3 is a very interesting one. I see exactly what you're saying. It's pretty easy to pull out the wallet now and again and drop a $20 or so and then get home and go, "Christ! We spent $400 at the park today!" It might not be best to make people so aware that they're spending that kind of money.

As for #4, I suggest hitting a large chain park sometime and watching what the clueless families are doing. They are the ones buying the refill cups, paying for upcharges, buying on-ride photos, eating in the parks, riding a large selection of rides and so on. I'd guess it's the enthusiast who's flashing the season pass at the gate, power riding mostly coasters, doing lunch from the trunk, asking for cups of water along the way.

*** Edited 2/2/2006 7:46:32 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

I'm going to have to disagree with point #3. Again, look at disney. They make you spend a *ton* of money upfront to get their park hopper tickets but after than intial investment, the rest of your visits are "free".

Moreover, people only complain when they feel short-changed. If LG's theoretical park does a good job at making most people feel like they had a good time, they wont worry about supporting someone elses habit.

Furthermore, do you all think people are really that naive? Maybe my parents were special, but I know that they *always* had a budget planned out in advance so they at least knew 'generally' how much they were spending on our trips. Do people really become zombies with credit?

One more thing, slightly off topic. If you *do* go to Disney and want the "No-expiration" option, buy the tickets that *do* expire first, use as many days as you can in the 14days, then convert the remaining days to no-expriation. No point in buying 7 non-expiring days when you really only need 3.

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Do people really become zombies with credit?

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Yes, they really do. Once again, you are anything but normal. For example:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11128843/

From that article:

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Revolving debt, mostly comprised of credit card debt, has more than doubled from $313 billion in January 1994 to $753 billion in January 2004. A U.S. Public Interest Research Group and Consumer Federation of America analysis of Federal Reserve data indicates that the average household with debt carries approximately $10,000 to $12,000 in total revolving debt and has nine credit cards.

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Taking those numbers, 68 *million* households carry consumer debt. That's more than half of all households---in 2004, the Census Bureau estimated 112 million US households. If you subtract the households that have no credit cards at all, the picture looks even more grim.

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No point in buying 7 non-expiring days when you really only need 3.

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The Mouse thought of that. You pay the no-experiation cost based on the total length of the ticket, not the number of days you have left when you buy the no-expire option.

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Brian Noble said:

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Do people really become zombies with credit?

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Yes, they really do.

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ROFL, I was *reading blind* going down the thread without looking ahead when I saw that from jeremy...my mouth FLEW open. Consumer debt HAS *exploded*, for sure....they're learning from their government that it really means very little to owe half your annual salary to creditors, if you plan on NEVER paying it back...

Heaven help the children, they may not "pay it back", but the amount owed to foreign banks, etc., is not only STAGGERING, it's an issue of national security as far as I'm concerned...to say nothing about the fact that it DOES "crowd out" investment...

Since we only did a hit-and-run visit to SFKK in 2002 (I don't think either of us expected to make it to Kentucky on the first day from Maryland), the one thing I remember the park needing is a lot more landscaping. They've got some great attractions. It would just overall work a lot better if there were more trees etc.

I've been thinking about the free sunscreen thing at Holiday World, and in some way it cracks me up. Let's say you arrive at the park around 10am, and decide to ride the coasters and rides first (which it seemed most people were doing). So then later on in the day (let's say 3pm or so), you say "Hey, let's go to the waterpark!" You're already too late for the sunscreen. Looking at my picture of say the Raven queue, it's clear there's no cover, so you're already burned before you've even made it to the waterpark if you didn't apply in the morning. Sunscreen is such a ridiculously cheap thing anyway when you think about it. I can get a tube of sunscreen and it'll last easily the whole season.

You know where they need the free sunscreen the most? Cedar Point. Good god, I've never seen so many burned people in all my life.

"Replace the Himalaya. Either that, or...
o install wheel covers
o install toe fences
o install canvas between cars
o redesign the lap bar latch to get it out of the seat
o remove the individual seat belts (WTF is that all about?!)
o increase the speed to 15 RPM
o paint the whole ride"

but like Steel said, people LOVE the himalaya... atleast the GP does... and don't worry.. the pressure washing is being taken care of ;)