Shapiro's SFKK visit
It does make you wonder though with HW adding The Voyage and a new themed area with rides, BB adding Kentucky Rumbler, and PKI expanding their kid's area how long SFKK can continue to go on without something new. The park is smack in the middle of those other 3 parks. The competition has heated up, but I'll take improved customer service for now.
So far, I'm impressed with this man.
Oh and by the way, I believe the parking lot is controlled by the state fair, so I don't think we will see any increase in the $4 bucks(!) to park...at least from the SF management.
*** Edited 2/1/2006 5:54:53 PM UTC by thrillerman1***
I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say about plans for the park.
I certainly hope more significant internal infrastructure items were addressed than just those things mentioned in the article.
The problem at SFKK, as I have stressed time and time again, is the general lack of concern the leaders show for the park's operations. That trickles down to the seasonal employees who, quite frankly, don't give a flying &%$# how good a time the guests have.
The lack of concern/interest that you see at many of the Six Flags parks can easily be attributed to the fact that they have received little to no coporate support or the financial backing needed to improve their operations or fix their flaws. Many of the fledgling SF parks have literally been milked for money with little to no leadership.
SFKK has an uphill battle to fight.
First, previous guests have come to see it as nothing more than a small, local, poorly maintained park. Once a guest is burned, it's hard to get them back... especially if you raise prices. (Who's brainchild is THAT?!!!! Oy!)
Second, as I elluded to before, the general work atmosphere there sucks... employees don't care because management doesn't care. The management doesn't care because they feel they get the shaft by coporate.
The park serves as a huge babysitter to teens during summer months. It's on the busline, which means parents will rush to buy a $39 season pass just so their teen will be out of their hair all summer. The teens camp out at the park, congregate in large groups, annoy people, deface rides, steal merchandise and ignore rules.
Families do not feel welcome, safe, or charmed by a park that caters to unruly teenagers. If it were me, I'd require that no one under the age of 16 be permitted in that park without constant adult supervision. If that seems unfair or rude to all of you buzzers out there that are under 16, too bad... your peers set a ridiculously poor example for you at this park.
Finally... drawing families is not about paint jobs... it's more marketing than anything.
Holiday World and PKI target families HARD. They easily win that battle because of the solid reputations they have worked hard to establish. They literally slam the heck out of SFKK with advertising. Why, even when you are inside SFKK, surrounding billboards promoting HW and PKI are visible.
Talk about smart! They count on SFKK failing! PKI and HW know that if guests, while having a horrible time, see their billboard, then they will no doubt think "Next time we'll go to Holiday World!" or "Next time let's go to King's Island."
It's pretty sad state of affairs when rival parks not only target your market, but capitalize off of your consistent failures and beat the crap out of you.
Years ago, prior to SF, KK used to market hard. Billboards, TV spots, radio ads, local discount offers at every imaginable fast food place and gas station. Heck, they used to monopolize the most highly visible billboard in all of Louisville. That bit the dust long ago.
I can honestly say that I have purposely avoided SFKK for the past 2 years. Sorry, I still have no desire to go back... no matter how snazzy the paint looks on Chang or how accessible an ice cream cone is throughout the park. I just don't like it, it offers nothing of interest to me, and I just didn't have fun in the past.
I am among the majority of Louisvillians that think this way... so therein lies the challenge... to change our minds.
Shaggy *** Edited 2/1/2006 6:21:46 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
Shaggy said:
I hardly think not having to pay for a rope climbing attraction, or painting Chang, or replacing the catering tent awnings is the solution here.I certainly hope more significant internal infrastructure items were addressed than just those things mentioned in the article.
The problem at SFKK, as I have stressed time and time again, is the general lack of concern the leaders show for the park's operations. That trickles down to the seasonal employees who, quite frankly, don't give a flying &%$# how good a time the guests have.
The lack of concern/interest that you see at many of the Six Flags parks can easily be attributed to the fact that they have received little to no coporate support or the financial backing needed to improve their operations or fix their flaws. Many of the fledgling SF parks have literally been milked for money with little to no leadership.
SFKK has an uphill battle to fight.
First, previous guests have come to see it as nothing more than a small, local, poorly maintained park. Once a guest is burned, it's hard to get them back... especially if you raise prices. (Who's brainchild is THAT?!!!! Oy!)
Second, as I elluded to before, the general work atmosphere there sucks... employees don't care because management doesn't care. The management doesn't care because they feel they get the shaft by coporate.
The park serves as a huge babysitter to teens during summer months. It's on the busline, which means parents will rush to buy a $39 season pass just so their teen will be out of their hair all summer. The teens, in turn, camp out at the park. They congregate in large groups, annoy people, deface rides, steal merchandise and ignore rules. I am sorry, but families do not feel welcome, safe, or charmed by a park that caters to unruly teenagers. If it were me, I'd require that no one under the age of 16 be permitted in that park without constant adult supervision. If that seems unfair or rude to all of you buzzers out there that are under 16, too bad... your peers set a ridiculously poor example for you at this park.
Finally... drawing families is not about paint jobs... it's more marketing than anything.
Holiday World and PKI target families HARD. They easily win that battle because of the solid reputations they have worked hard to establish. They literally slam the heck out of SFKK with advertising. Why, even when you are inside SFKK, surrounding billboards promoting HW and PKI are visible. Talk about smart! PKI and HW know that the guests have a horrible time there. They know that if guests, who are having that horrible time, see their billboard, then the unstaisfied SFKK visitor will no doubt think "Next time we'll go to Holiday World!"
It's pretty sad state of affairs when rival parks not only target your market, but capitalize off of your consistent failures and beat the crap out of you.
Years ago, prior to SF, KK used to market hard. Billboards, TV spots, radio ads, local discount offers at every imaginable fast food place and gas station. Heck, they used to monopolize the most highly visible billboard in all of Louisville. That bit the dust long ago.
I can honestly say that I have purposely avoided SFKK for the past 2 years. Sorry, I still have no desire to go back... no matter how snazzy the paint looks on Chang or how accessible an ice cream cone is throughout the park. I just don't like it, it offers nothing of interest to me, and I just didn't have fun in the past.
I am among the majority of Louisvillians that think this way... so therein lies the challenge... to change our minds.
Shaggy *** Edited 2/1/2006 6:15:28 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Its more than just the paint and such, though. The inside management at SFKK is much different now (differences that have happened within the past week), and they are working very hard at improving as much as possible in this 2006 year. They may not have any amazing coasters in the near future, but the park itself will get better.
Someone mentioned not charging admission on rock wall...thats a miscommunication. Its the ladder climb that will not charge admission.
And someone mentioned making Thrill Karts for free. Are you nuts??? Do you know how expensive it is to run thrill karts?? Remember that they run on gasoline, and the way gas prices are today, those won't be free anytime soon!
Shaggy
Shaggy
Shaggy said:
The Tin Lizzies antique car attraction runs on gasoline... and it's free. See the irony?Shaggy
No...cause tin lizzies don't require NEARLY as much gasoline as the thrill karts do. Not to mention, there are three times as many thrill karts as there are tin lizzies. Also tin lizzies runs on an designated track, and there is no racing involved. Go carts is much more free-will, and people will pay $5 to drive them. They wouldn't pay $5 to follow a designated track at 5 miles an hour in a model T.
Where is there a place that DOESNT charge admission on a go cart track??? If there is a place, please let me know cause I'll need to visit it!!
Shaggy said:
I hardly think not having to pay for a rope climbing attraction, or painting Chang, or replacing the catering tent awnings is the solution here.
Hell no. But it's s start. Those are details that were more or less ignored by the company's past leadership and I think it says a lot that little things like that are getting attention in one way or another.
The lack of concern/interest that you see at many of the Six Flags parks can easily be attributed to the fact that they have received little to no coporate support or the financial backing needed to improve their operations or fix their flaws. Many of the fledgling SF parks have literally been milked for money with little to no leadership.
And that is what I think is the logic behind Shapiro's tour of the company's parks. One of Six Flags' main problems always seemed to be a lack of interest in the parks, the employees and the guests on the corporate level and I think Shapiro is trying to fix that. My father always taught me that in order to accomplish something, you have to "get in peoples' faces". That seems to be exactly what he is doing.
If the employees see that the "biggest guy" in the company is taking an interest in what goes on, surely they're going to realize that it's an entirely different ballgame they're about to be playing. Hopefully that filters down and improves the guest experience.
Rob Ascough said:
If the employees see that the "biggest guy" in the company is taking an interest in what goes on, surely they're going to realize that it's an entirely different ballgame they're about to be playing. Hopefully that filters down and improves the guest experience.
It most certainly will! You are a very smart guy, Rob. ;)
You missed the point.
Dropping the upcharge cost on an attraction (like a ladder climb) no one cares about means nothing for improved guest perception. If SFKK wants to lure guests back... then they should consider dropping the upcharge cost on a popular one.
Then they could market it as a park that doesn't charge admission on their go-karts or other attractions. Heck, HW has succeeded hand-over-fist by marketing their park as one with freebies... suncreen, drinks, tube rental, parking etc. etc. etc.
If they are increasing general admission prices, it seems to me that would more than off-set the cost of operating the attractions without an up-charge.
Guests want to think they are getting a good deal... especially in today's economic world. Think it costs a lot of money to operate the go-karts?
Well, heck, think this way... if the park sucks, then guests don't want to pay for the gas to drive there to begin with.... thus having go-karts is obsolete.
Shaggy *** Edited 2/1/2006 6:50:30 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
Also, you could argue Mount Olympus is that way too. ;)
AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf
Maybe a free rock climbing wall doesn't matter but it's one less thing people have to pay for once inside the park. Like Shapiro suggested, a five digit profit isn't much to write home about so why bother putting people through the hassle of having to pay for such an attraction? The park should be charging for attractions that they are going to make a ton of money on- that's going to lead to profit that is going to get Six Flags out of this hole they're in.
Just some interesting info.
Chuck, who seen some good comments made but mostly by the kid. Make it free and give a nickle dime comment and then latter add the phrase Surcharges :) LOL.
Shaggy said:
Families do not feel welcome, safe, or charmed by a park that caters to unruly teenagers. If it were me, I'd require that no one under the age of 16 be permitted in that park without constant adult supervision. If that seems unfair or rude to all of you buzzers out there that are under 16, too bad... your peers set a ridiculously poor example for you at this park.Finally... drawing families is not about paint jobs... it's more marketing than anything.
Shaggy, I love you like a play-cousin, I hope you know that, but I think you are a little too close to the situation to see the whole picture.
Every one of these "Visit" stories (this one included) has Shapiro stating that he understands that the parks are dominated by teens. Moreover, he has a vision of changing this. Repeatedly, he has said that they were going away from thrills in favor of family friendly entertainment. If anything, this is the *one* thing you shoulde be heartened by. The "Family Friendly" card seems to be his "ace in the hole".
One other thing, you *do* know that Oh Danny-boy made his fortune being a marketing whiz right? I do not think that marketing will be the biggest problem this administration faces.
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
So, actually, since '98 when they became SF, they've recieved a Wild Mouse in 2000 and a used shuttle in 2003. Not outstanding, considering '95 was T2, '96 was Hellevator, '97 Chang and '98 was Twisted Twins.
I do like what the new guy is doing though. This is what that park needed more than anything.
BUT IMO... adverstising is one thing... park experience is another. They both must work closely, hand-in hand.
The essence of marketing is essentially to make something seem so incredible, that the buying public *has* to have a piece of it.
However, the biggest challenge a marketer can face is promoting something that has been around for years, that the buying public does not care for.
This article in the paper is, no doubt, part of that marketing scheme. And Shapiro is clever in inviting the local press to his visits, to no doubt feature a story on the "improving conditions" that the parks will have this year.
The very fact that the media is being invited to his "tours" and then running articles about the intention to improve esthetics at the park is EXTREMELY telling. It prooves how the local buying public has a very low opinion of the park. And the marketing machine has tons of work to do.
However the old addage still stands... unless you back up your marketing with actual viable product... then you cannot count on it's success. The everyday consumer is smarter than that.
Heck, the legend of "New Coke" prooved that point in spades.
Shaggy *** Edited 2/1/2006 7:19:38 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
J.C. said:
Has anyone heard if Shaprio has visited SFOT yet?I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say about plans for the park.
He visited during Holiday in the Park, and one of his comments was that they need to do this at more parks.
He also visited SFFT, and the show person told him he needs to come in the summer and see the Lone Star Spectacular. He replied that he had already seen it. Apparently they visited quite a few parks last season before making the takeover decision.
No one was giving a lot of details, but everyone I've talked to at both of the Texas parks seems real happy with the new management.
*** Edited 2/1/2006 7:57:21 PM UTC by Jeffrey Seifert***
I realize that a LOT of Six Flags business comes from the teenage crowd but I think the downfalls of that are a bit overblown- kids are hardly the sole problem at the parks. They aren't the only ones that trash the place and they're not the only ones that enter with empty pockets and locks on their wallets.
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