Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

Well, we are most likely going. And we would be totally cool if it were still masks required. And we will still probably totally cool by July. And I’m sure that I do things with my kids that Jeff wouldn’t be comfortable with (so not exactly linear). I’ll probably come around but it’s not great to have planned and invested expecting one thing and to (potentially, who knows what Disney will do) get another.

But yeah, I am surprised at diverging with Jeff on this one.

Universal is the first of the big ones to budge. No masks outside. Masks required in queues and inside shops.

See, here's what I don't get and what's leading to my trepidation. The CDC recommendation only applied to fully vaccinated people. If I understand correctly, Universal/Hershey/Kennywood et al. is doing no masks for anyone, vaccinated or unvaccinated. It's not clear to me that no masks in a partially vaccinated crowd is better than all masks in an unvaccinated crowd.

You technically have to be vaccinated but no one is going to check your status. Outdoor transmission is < 10% according to the CDC and if you look into it it’s more likely < 1%. Outdoor transmission is not really a thing and there are more people vaccinated for Covid than the flu right now.

Went to Kennywood tonight. They have a large sign out front saying masks aren’t required if you’re vaccinated. What’s funny is people still wore masks under their noses or as chinstraps. I guess they didn’t get the memo.

I think plenty of people will continue to wear masks for a long time regardless of what the rules are.

Update: Virginia is now also losing the mask mandates (as of midnight tonight); Busch Gardens Williamsburg/Kings Dominion likely to follow suit.

Andy, to your point, I think it's easy for people with no young kids to not understand your perspective. For myself, the surprising move for these parks so far has been the loss of mask mandates coupled with the removal of all social distancing as well; keeping the distance mandate would likely make people in your position a little less wary of coming out with unvaccinated tiny people.

That said, I don't share your trepidation (we have a soon-to-be-vaxed 13 year old and a 9 year old)...but I get it.

The kids will be alright.

Can't find an official source yet, but Disney follows suit

"Give 'em inch and they'll take a mile." I don't think I'm being paranoid in feeling really uncomfortable now that indoor retail stores like Walmart are dropping their mask requirement (subject to local regulations and based on honor code vaccination (lol)). I feel a lot less safe bringing my kids into a Walmart if there are going to be unmasked, unvaccinated people in there. I can concede that outdoor areas are probably super safe and worrying about them was probably irrational, but I don't know how I'm supposed to be okay in crowded, indoor shopping areas.

So far my county hasn't made any moves at all on dropping the requirements, and I suspect they'll play the indoor/outdoor game as we're a fairly strict county overall, but if things go 100% on June 15th as the governor says, I hope the case counts continue dropping until then.

My slider didn't change, there's just considerably more data and better understood science. Well, and also vaccines.

Right after we left Magic Kingdom, Diana got a pop-up in the Disney app indicating that masks are now optional in outdoor common areas. So attractions and queues, still required.

Now, I get that the CDC is saying the vaccinated are fine outside or in, but if you dig into the numbers, it's likely that less than 1% is transmission happens outside. So it appears the parks are going to lean on that.

SeaWorld put this out tonight:

Based on the recently announced guidance from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, we are modifying our policy regarding face coverings at some of our SeaWorld parks. Face coverings will no longer be required for guests at SeaWorld Orlando and SeaWorld San Antonio who are fully vaccinated in accordance with CDC guidance. We will not require proof of vaccine, but ask our guests to be respectfully comply with our revised policy. In California where the state and local guidance mandates face coverings, we will require all guests at SeaWorld San Diego to wear face coverings until further notice. All SeaWorld park employees will be required to continue to wear face coverings at this time. The safety of our guests, Ambassadors and animals in our care remains our top priority. We will continue to monitor and address this changing environment as necessary. For more information, guests can stay up to date on our park policies by visiting our dedicated safety website.

Andy - If feasible, look into getting vaxed in another state. I live in Ohio but got my first shot in Las Vegas back in March because Nevada had a surplus of vaccines. If your family wanted to take a weekend roadtrip to Reno, or even Vegas, you could probably swing it. I haven't been paying attention, but I'd be willing to bet Nevada has lower age restrictions now. Just make a mini vacation out of it. Ohio also just opened up age 12 and older now, FWIW.

Oh, it's not a state thing. My kids are 11, 9, and 7, so no vaccine has been approved by the FDA for their age. My wife and I have been fully vaxed for over 2 months now. Thanks for the tips, though.

Jeff said:

SeaWorld put this out tonight:

That's gonna be the path. The conversation here is WAY overthinking it.

We just can't say official policy is "It's been available to everyone long enough now. You're on your own." (aka Gonch's Policy)

---

I'd also love to get into some endgame debates/discussions like the ones we had early in this thread covering the **** we talked about all along the way...but, I also know we'd all think we were right in hindsight.

Somewhere in these 200 pages I said something along the lines of (and doing a Gonchback on my phone from a hotel room in Miami at 2am isn't happening):

"It will be interesting to see all of the paths people take to get through this" and I think that's even more true now. The finish line is in sight, look at how differently we all got here.

The consensus among epidemiologists seems to be that the "end" is around 70% vaccination, which isn't that far away if most kids get it when they can. Indeed, at this point, "Do it for the children," is a reasonable plea.

In the mean time, I will ruthlessly judge adults who can but refuse to get the shot as selfish and horrible people.

Here's the text from the WDW app:

Face coverings are required for all Guests (ages 2 and up) and Cast Members. Please bring your own face coverings and wear them in all indoor locations, except when actively eating or drinking while stationary and maintaining appropriate physical distancing. Face coverings are optional in outdoor common areas at Walt Disney World Resort, but are still required upon entering and throughout all attractions, theaters and transportation.

Lord Gonchar said:

"It's been available to everyone long enough now. "

My hangup is that everyone seems to be acting like this is the case, but it's not for kids and won't be for another 6 months. We can argue about by how much and how much it matters (sliders etc.), but the last 24 hours have undeniably made things less safe for kids.

I can't argue that except to say that we seem to have collectively decided the non-zero risk for the kids is low enough that we're essentially multiplying by zero.

(with the disclaimer that my assessment of the actual risk has been on the lower end of the scale in regards to our little community here.)

But I think that's the argument... is it really less safe for kids is their risk was exponentially lower in the first place? 450 US deaths under 18 probably is too many, but relative to other diseases and risks, it's not that high.

Sure. But “taking kids into Target without thinking” became “weigh umpteen factors before taking kids into Target” overnight. And of course, maybe in a few trips it will again return to “take kids into Target without thinking” but it may also turn into “leave kids in car” or “hem and haw for a while.”

This is, of course all hypothetical, as my county is really strict.

Are maskless people outdoors at WDW today in common areas going to create a super-spreader event among children? The data says no.