Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

wahoo skipper said:

This morning we lost one of my police officers. 46 years old. No underlying conditions that we are aware of. Husband and father.

And as with each of these individual scenarios, my heart and thoughts go out to each and every person that has had to deal with losing a loved one. The fact that the United States is in the shape it is in is inexcusable and that so many people continue to be exposed and succumb to this is absolutely awful, especially given the fact that it could have been so different.

Despite my personal calmness about all of this, my optimism that the scientists and medical professionals will eventually figure this out, and my willingness to think it's okay for many to safely participate in society, it's not at all lost on me that this is no joke. My thoughts are with everyone that is dealing with any loss during this time.

I'm with you on literally all of those things. But it's frustrating when people can look at things in a positive light when they're objectively twice as bad as they were in May, even though we made some progress after that. America gave up, and now it's scratching its balls trying to understand why opening a high school leads to an almost immediate closing of it with a widespread outbreak.

wahoo skipper said:

Statistics are interesting. They make good headlines. They are fun to throw around.

People don't fundamentally understand how statistics work, that's what I find infuriating. I'm tired of hearing, "There's only a 1 in 100 chance I'll die," which is true, but only true if you actually get it. We can make everyone get to 0% if we do our best to contain it, which we don't.

Maybe this is way off and kind of over simplistic, but to me, focusing on those mortality rate statistics seem inherently self-focused. Like, "What's the probability that *I* will die from Cornoa virus?" They don't really have anything to do with how my behavior will affect other people through community transmission.

I am self-focused because it's what I can control. I can't wallow in every death, lung transplant, and anecdote. It's not healthy.

(to Jeff) What exactly would you propose in order to contain the virus? We keep seeing posts about things that are going wrong and very little in the way of tangible, practical solutions that will help. What about the drawbacks of those measures?

For instance, you've mentioned New Zealand on numerous occasions as a standout for their countermeasures. What about the drawbacks of their strategy, which includes yet another lockdown that was just recently extended. Or how about our friends in Melbourne, who have this to contend with:

Those restrictions include a curfew in Melbourne for the next six weeks, a ban on wedding gatherings, and schools must go back to online classes. Only one person per household is allowed to leave their homes once a day -- outside of curfew hours -- to pick up essential goods, and they must stay within a 5 kilometer (3.1 miles) radius of their home.

These kinds of maybe they'll work if we keep trying them long enough measures are ignoring the very real side effects including significant increases in suicides and overdoses and things like this:

Overall, 40.9% of 5,470 respondents who completed surveys during June reported an adverse mental or behavioral health condition, including those who reported symptoms of anxiety disorder or depressive disorder (30.9%), those with TSRD symptoms related to COVID-19 (26.3%), those who reported having started or increased substance use to cope with stress or emotions related to COVID-19 (13.3%), and those who reported having seriously considered suicide in the preceding 30 days (10.7%). At least one adverse mental or behavioral health symptom was reported by more than one half of respondents who were aged 18–24 years (74.9%) and 25–44 years (51.9%), of Hispanic ethnicity (52.1%), and who held less than a high school diploma (66.2%), as well as those who were essential workers (54.0%), unpaid caregivers for adults (66.6%), and who reported treatment for diagnosed anxiety (72.7%), depression (68.8%), or PTSD (88.0%) at the time of the survey.

These kinds of problems are just as real as the complications from the virus but they are getting nowhere near the same level of attention. Any virus response that ignores or minimizes these effects should immediately be called into question.

ApolloAndy said:

Maybe this is way off and kind of over simplistic, but to me, focusing on those mortality rate statistics seem inherently self-focused. Like, "What's the probability that *I* will die from Cornoa virus?" They don't really have anything to do with how my behavior will affect other people through community transmission.

Disease historically is something that we have taken safety measures to protect ourselves. Basically every disease has been, take x measure to protect yourself. Wear a condom to protect yourself. Get a flu shot to protect yourself. Now all of a sudden it’s wear a mask or stay home to protect others. We have been walking disease bags since the beginning of time. Now all of a sudden it’s on us to not spread it to others.

You're grossly oversimplifying the problem. If you get the clap, no one is going to get it because you're buying groceries. It's not in the same ballpark. It's not even the same sport.

Gary Dowdell said:

(to Jeff) What exactly would you propose in order to contain the virus?

I don't propose anything other than listen to the experts, wear a mask, social distance and stop yelling "BUT MAH FREEDOMS!!!11!" People are not doing these easy, fundamental things, that's why we have more cases than any other western nation.

Jeff said:

If you get the clap, no one is going to get it because you're buying groceries.

Coasterbuzz. Come because you're a big fan of roller coasters and amusement parks. Stay for the science.

Gary Dowdell's point is very important. One of my coworkers from school also works as a pharmacy technician part time. She has been seeing way more prescriptions filled for anxiety and depression medications since the stay at home order was issued much of the increase in school age children/teens after schools were closed. My husband is a paramedic and after the initial wave of Covid related calls that volume has gone down but overdoses, suicides and other calls that fall under 'psychiatric emergency" are all up. Shootings and stabbings violence in general is up. I can't imagine how I would fare under a Melbourne style lockdown so many of my coping mechanisms when things were closed involved us all leaving the house as a family but mot interacting with others or me by myself in the car but more than 3 miles from my home.

I think the mental health ramifications are important and I don't deny it. I'm seeing it with my own family. But, don't think we should worry about physical health OR mental health. We should be tackling both. We need leadership to do just that.

I get it. I'm no stranger to lorazepam. You know what sucks worse than anxiety and depression? Not being alive to have it. But what we really need right now is for people to suck it up for six months, so the exit doesn't take longer than necessary. We should have been doing that months ago.

I wonder how/if the New Zealand response to COVID is going to continue to be the exemplary talking point for the left, now that they've delayed their election. 🤣

Well, they're not led by fascist autocrat, so perhaps it's not as urgent.

Jeff said:

But what we really need right now is for people to suck it up for six months, so the exit doesn't take longer than necessary. We should have been doing that months ago.

I agree with you, but am fully playing devil's advocate with this next question:

How do you "sell" this to someone who, five months ago, was told they needed to suck it up for two weeks. Then four weeks. Then two months. Now five months later they are told they need to suck it up for six months.

Granted, you can do stuff again and it's not like we're just staying at home anymore unless that decision is being made individually. But "quarantine fatigue" is a thing, especially in a country where, thanks to Arby's, we have all the meats in addition to all the freedoms.

The never maskers and those that somehow think the whole world is doing this as a plot against their savior Trump aren't the folks that are going to listen. But those that aren't denying it, but may be skeptical or are just tired of restrictions and potentially not having access to a loved one are the ones that may need a reminder or a lesson as to why what is happening is necessary.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than I just don't know how to get those that don't get it to get it. And we're long past the point of any sort of reversal in terms of what is open and what kind of movement is going on in society. But even Fauci has said all you have to do is wear that little piece of cloth over your face and make smart choices. And clearly we can't do that.

eightdotthree said:

I am self-focused because it's what I can control. I can't wallow in every death, lung transplant, and anecdote. It's not healthy.

I'm not suggesting that anyone do that, but I am suggesting that being aware of the consequences of our actions for other people is important. Gaining knowledge about whether and how our choices affect others is something we can control and something that's part of our responsibility to society. I see narrow focus on mortality rates as being akin to focusing on the probability of getting a ticket when littering.

TheMillenniumRider said:

We have been walking disease bags since the beginning of time. Now all of a sudden it’s on us to not spread it to others.

Vaccines have always been about herd immunity as well as individual immunity. That's why there's such hostility towards the anti-vax movement. But I get it, "caring about others" is not your thing. I don't know how to argue that it should be.

BrettV said:

How do you "sell" this to someone who, five months ago, was told they needed to suck it up for two weeks. Then four weeks. Then two months. Now five months later they are told they need to suck it up for six months.

I have no idea. I can't explain why our leadership pretended it would "go away." I can't account for science illiteracy, and the misunderstanding that the process is linear and perfect. I can't convince people that they're lied to every day by a man they voted for.

And y'all wonder why it's hard to be optimistic?

ApolloAndy said:

Gaining knowledge about whether and how our choices affect others is something we can control and something that's part of our responsibility society.

I am still stunned when I realize people still don't understand how this spreads or don't understand why we wear masks.

Jeff said:

And y'all wonder why it's hard to be optimistic?

I can't speak for anyone else here but it sure isn't easy. I am not an overly optimistic person. It takes a lot of therapy for me to not look at the negative side of everything and to stop worrying about things that are out of my control. Legal weed helps too... and bikes.

BrettV said:

How do you "sell" this to someone who, five months ago, was told they needed to suck it up for two weeks. Then four weeks. Then two months. Now five months later they are told they need to suck it up for six months.

Part of the problem was putting a time frame on it in the first place. It was done in an effort to give people some sort of light at the end of the tunnel and the "yay freedom" crowd is who freaks out when the timeline doesn't hold up. As others have said, the virus doesn't stick to a timeline and thus won't go away. Why it's never been sold as "let's mask up and distance as long as it takes" is baffling.

If you listened to the scientists, and not the politicians, you would have heard that the time frame they were discussing was discouraging but realistic. One of the earliest projections on the availability of a vaccine was winter of 2020 into spring of 2021. That was the moment I started talking to my staff about working virtually through the end of the year, at best.

That is the problem with Trump. His mixed messaging gave false hope. Let's liken it to the posting of wait times at amusement parks. Even though I've been to Disney countless times I always feel like I "won" when I beat the posted wait time by 15 minutes or more. If I wait 45 minutes in a line posted as 1 hour...yeah me. Disney knows that...so the wait times are generally inflated over reality. Now, if the wait time was posted at 30 minutes and I wait 45 I feel like I got hosed.

You remember when Trump was talking about us all going to church on Easter Sunday? The scientists weren't saying that, at all, and therefore he was giving at least some of his followers false hope. Then the summer heat was going to make it "disappear". Again, the scientists were sticking with a winter '20/spring '21 projection on a vaccine. Then he was excited to see all kids going back to school. Today UNC Chapel Hill is realizing the failed experiment and sending the kids back online for virtual classes.

We need candor and honesty from our leaders, even when we don't like it. In fact, that is the time we need it the most. From a leadership perspective this is one of the biggest failures I've seen from the Federal government in my 50 years...and it isn't because good people aren't trying to do the right thing. There are good people in the Trump Administration who are trying to do the right thing. Trump just can't get out of their way. His ego won't allow it.