SeaWorld announces end to orca breeding

Interesting commentary from Manby.

Pretty much debunks the theory that Blackfish had nothing to do with the company's performance. It may have been the line pushed out by the Atchison team, but that isn't reality.

"We changed because society's mindset was changing. The truth is our customer base was shrinking. And the data said it was shrinking. More and more people distrusted us and didn't support having orcas under human care. Now how that narrative was formed was a variety of issues: documentaries, legislation, social media, the millennial generation all influenced that. We are changing because society is changing."

I don't think it debunks anything. Changing direction is the right thing for the long term, sure, but if you compare the attendance trends between Texas and Orlando, one competitive market, one not (the not having added nothing while raising prices), I don't think it's hard to connect the dots.

It debunks your theory that you posted on this very thread... "I'll say it again, Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance. Not building anything in Orlando while raising prices, did."

The CEO of the organization has said in quarterly conference calls and now on this video that isn't the case.

Manby: "The truth is our customer base was shrinking. And the data said it was shrinking. More and more people distrusted us and didn't support having orcas under human care. Now how that narrative was formed was a variety of issues: documentaries, legislation, social media, the millennial generation all influenced that"

SeaWorld is doing a total 180 on their orca program because of documentaries (Blackfish) that changed society's mindset. And that shift in mindset was hurting the company's financial performance. Manby also said in the video, "The data showed and trends showed it was a SeaWorld without whales or it would probably be a world without SeaWorld...We are an organization that needs to have cashflow....Unfortunately, the trends have not been in the right direction for us....I know that's blunt."

You don't need to "connect the dots" .... Manby is pretty much laying it out there for the public.

(As a total sidenote - I think you might be confused on what SeaWorld parks aren't performing well. In this thread, I quoted about a dozen statements from Manby and Crage in the quarterly calls. It's Texas and California that are issues - not Orlando. They say it over and over).

Whatever you say. It's not like I would have any context or anything.

What I say? It's isn't what I say.... It's what Joel Manby, the CEO of the organization says - repeatedly - in public and investor calls - over and over.

It's OK to admit you are wrong every once in a while. SeaWorld itself is essentially admitting they were wrong and had their collective heads in the sand under the Atchison regime with regard to the public perception of the orca and Blackfish issues.

So when one CEO says something, it's spin, but when another says it, it's not? I don't care about being right. Don't try to paint me with that brush. I was there. You can think whatever you want.

I think Manby (or anyone) could tell you the sky is blue, and you'd say it's red.

How much more obvious does the guy need to make it? Your statement, "I'll say it again, Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance. Not building anything in Orlando while raising prices, did" is just not even close to being accurate. It's OK you once thought that with the information you had from the head-in-the-sand Atchison regime, but again it just doesn't jive with the reality Manby talks about SeaWorld finding themselves in.

"The truth is our customer base was shrinking. And the data said it was shrinking. More and more people distrusted us and didn't support having orcas under human care. Now how that narrative was formed was a variety of issues: documentaries, legislation, social media, the millennial generation all influenced that"

"The data showed and trends showed it was a SeaWorld without whales or it would probably be a world without SeaWorld...We are an organization that needs to have cashflow....Unfortunately, the trends have not been in the right direction for us....I know that's blunt."

So what is your hypothesis? That Manby is just making all this stuff up so they can get rid of their most high-profile attraction and totally change their business model? And somehow trying to "spin" it? If he was trying to "spin" it - they wouldn't be as forthright and open about these issues as they are now being.

I assume you were an employee of SeaWorld during the Atchsion regime (the guy who was fired from the CEO position because he refused to acknowledge/respond to changing consumer preferences and just resigned from the Board). SeaWorld had their collective heads in the sand under Atchison with the orca issue and how Blackfish brought this attention to the forefront of society in many ways.

Your continued reliance on whatever information you have from your time at SeaWorld under Atchison just doesn't jive with reality that Blackfish (and other documentaries) really precipitated a significant shift in society's views towards captive orcas and SeaWorld and had a very material and damaging impact to the company's performance. Again, Manby and the current leadership team have been pretty transparent about that and what their data shows.

Here's a decent analogy - look at Cedar Fair under Kinzel and Ouimet. Do you think a former employee from 5 years ago under the Kinzel regime would understand the priorities and strategy and data and processes and internal thinking of Cedar Fair under the Ouimet regime? I don't.

...so the guy who actually worked at the place knows less about what was going on than the guy who reads about the place on the Internet....?

Yes. It was true during the time he worked there that the management team led by Atchison did not believe Blackfish which precipitated significant changes in society's views towards orcas and SeaWorld's captivity of orcas was a major driver in the company's poor performance. Head-in-the-sand approach. Atchison was fired for refusing to accept this reality and adapt their business model. Under Atchison, the company refused to even publicly acknowledge or discuss Blackfish or any shift in consumer/society opinion on this. So I understand why Jeff think what he does because that's what the company thought when he was there.

Luckily for SeaWorld, the board fired Atchison and brought in Manby. Manby has been extraordinarily open and transparent with the significant challenges the company has faced due to their orca program and shifting opinions within society and the millennial generation of said orca program which was caused (according to Manby) by documentaries (Blackfish), legislation and social media.

In Manby's own words, he's being pretty "blunt." I am not sure how much more blunt or transparent he needs to be in regards to why they are shutting down their orca program over time. Because they weren't going to be able to financially survive with it because their customer base was shrinking because of the orca captivity.

Manby's words, not mine.

Your problem is that you think my opinion is based solely on the words of an executive I never even met.

... so the guy that actually worked at the place knows less than the guy that looks up PR quotes online....?

If it makes you feel better, just disregard everything the company has said over the past year. Like I said, Manby could say the sky is blue, and you'd say no, it's red

Blackfish and other documentaries have had no effect on society's views and no effect on the financial performance of the company. The company is struggling financially because of poor performance of SeaWorld California and SeaWorld Texas. It isn't because of Blackfish, but rather because they haven't built anything at SeaWorld Orlando outside of a flying coaster in 2009, turtle exhibit and theater in 2012 and the largest attraction at any SW park - Antarctica - in in 2013.

Nevermind the CEO saying their customer base is shrinking because their data showed people distrusted SeaWorld and orca captivity due to several factors such as documentaries, legislation and social media.

Nevermind SeaWorld making dramatic changes to their business model (orcas) to save the sinking ship Atchison left them due to changing public perception caused by Blackfish.

Nevermind the real underperforming parks in the company are California and Texas.

Yes, the mess the Manby inherited from Atchison is because they didn't build anything in Orlando.

slithernoggin said:
... so the guy that actually worked at the place knows less than the guy that looks up PR quotes online....?

I worked for Walmart once. I guess that makes me more qualified than their current CEO to comment on the internal workings and problems with the company.

If what Jeff says/implies is accurate, it doesn't seem wise for a publicly-traded company to keep releasing false and misleading statements about the financial performance of the company. Surely something like which parks are thriving vs. which are struggling would be fairly important, and could affect stock price.

Wouldn't that be illegal as well? Or at least very much frowned upon by the SEC. I mean, the CEO that said it (Blackfish) wasn't a huge deal is no longer with the company.

Lack of marketable capital and changing views on Orca captivity... These don't seem to be mutually exclusive reasons why the company performance was down.

Let's see what the attendance looks like after this year, with Mako opening and still having whale shows.

It's confusing why you are so hellbent on arguing against what the current CEO of the company is saying their problem is. And that it revolves around the orcas and society not supporting orca captivity any longer and distrusting SeaWorld due primarily to Blackfish and other documentaries and the social media/legislation that followed. Manby (in his own words) is being about as blunt and transparent as I've seen any CEO be when discussing a company's major strategic flaws and missteps - and you either refuse to believe Manby or refuse to admit you were wrong or a combination of both - I don't get what it is.

And I've showed you on this thread, Orlando hasn't been the issue. It's California (Blackfish/public perception) and Texas (weather and lack of marketable cap ex).

Regardless, attendance should jump significantly in 2016. They are putting in Mako in SW Orlando. Cobra's Curse in Busch Gardens Tampa and have announced the end of orca shows over the next 1-2 years and the end of orca breeding - so that buys a lot of goodwill from shrinking customer base.

Jeff said:
Let's see what the attendance looks like after this year, with Mako opening and still having whale shows.

Mako is going to give San Antonio and San Diego attendance boosts?

Regardless, look what else is liable to give them
An uptick in attendance: righting past wrongs, getting rid of Orca shows, pricing the parks correctly, and showing the public that they're changing their stance on Orcas in captivity.

Chicago07 said:
It's confusing why you are so hellbent...

I'm not hellbent on anything. You're the one making TL;DR posts arguing a hundred tangents. My point is, and has been, that it wasn't Blackfish that was the bigger problem. It was the lack of meaningful spending on new attractions. That's always been my argument.

December 2013, after the movie aired constantly on CNN, SWO has its second best day ever around Christmas, and Discovery Cove has its best month ever, according to the Orlando Sentinel. That doesn't seem like a protest to me.

2014 comes in, and Universal and Disney add nearly 2 million clicks and raise prices . SWO raises prices but adds nothing. Gosh, what possible outcome could that have? In fact, most of the chain follows the same pattern of raising prices but adding nothing.

Mamby comes in, agrees that breeding the orcas maybe isn't a good idea, but what's the action? A slide deck showing all of the things they could be adding, park by park. Immediate comments about how Orlando and San Diego are underinvested.

The whales aren't the problem. That's been my position for years. Beautiful parks becoming stagnant is the problem. Just ask Universal between 2001 and 2009.