SeaWorld announces end to orca breeding

Tekwardo said:

slithernoggin said:
... so the guy that actually worked at the place knows less than the guy that looks up PR quotes online....?

I worked for Walmart once. I guess that makes me more qualified than their current CEO to comment on the internal workings and problems with the company.

I'm not clear on how someone who works for a company in any capacity, leave aside the work Jeff was doing for the company, and someone who Googles PR posturing on the Internet are equivalent.

Jeff said:

Let's see what the attendance looks like after this year, with Mako opening and still having whale shows.

All that would prove is that the park with Mako and with whale shows is more of a draw than the park without Mako and with whale shows...and it obviously is.

Attendance dropped. We can speculate all day about what caused it, but at this point the myriad of changes being made to try to address that drop are creating a situation where it'll be nearly impossible to really determine what's what.

And, full disclosure, I've always been of the thought that CoasterBuzz, in general, doesn't give enough credit to the effect Blackfish really had on hurting business. I personally don't think it was the only thing. Your ideas about additions and such a valid too. I think Fun's post nails it - they're not mutually exclusive ideas.

To me, the interesting discussion is how much impact Blackfish had on the numbers. I really doubt the answer is, "none." It's most definitely some. Enough that SeaWorld spent a lot of time and money with PR, advertising and infiltrating protester groups trying to offset the message Blackfish put out there. If you don't think it's affecting business, you simply don't spend the resources combating it.

Jeff said:

I'm not hellbent on anything. You're the one making TL;DR posts arguing a hundred tangents. My point is, and has been, that it wasn't Blackfish that was the bigger problem. It was the lack of meaningful spending on new attractions. That's always been my argument.

Jeff, why are you still arguing this point? You originally said "Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance." You have the current CEO of the company very bluntly and very publicly saying that simply isn't the case. It's just not reality. What more evidence do you need - than the fact that it has had such a dramatic impact Manby felt that he had no choice but to stop to the orca program. Their own research showed people distrusted SeaWorld and no longer agreed with orca captivity.

Jeff said:

I'm not hellbent on anything. You're the one making TL;DR posts arguing a hundred tangents. My point is, and has been, that it wasn't Blackfish that was the bigger problem. It was the lack of meaningful spending on new attractions. That's always been my argument.

December 2013, after the movie aired constantly on CNN, SWO has its second best day ever around Christmas, and Discovery Cove has its best month ever, according to the Orlando Sentinel. That doesn't seem like a protest to me.

2014 comes in, and Universal and Disney add nearly 2 million clicks and raise prices . SWO raises prices but adds nothing. Gosh, what possible outcome could that have? In fact, most of the chain follows the same pattern of raising prices but adding nothing.

Again, SeaWorld Orlando isn't the problem. This a very public and transparent fact. The two parks with performance issues are SeaWorld San Diego (Blackfish/public perception) and SeaWorld San Antonio (weather/lack of marketable cap ex).

Jeff said:

The whales aren't the problem. That's been my position for years.

This goes back to Manby could tell you the sky is blue, and Jeff would say no it's red.

Certainly, Atchison left Manby with a whole host of issues - including underinvested parks. Atchison abandoned (aka thrown off) a sinking ship. I've never argued that the orca program was SeaWorld's only issue - just your assertion that "Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance."

But your continual denial of what Manby is reporting regarding SeaWorld's significant challenges and realities with the orca program - you evidently are so hellbent on your opinion being right that you just cannot accept it. Manby cannot possibly be more blunt and transparent about the whole thing.

"The truth is our customer base was shrinking. And the data said it was shrinking. More and more people distrusted us and didn't support having orcas under human care. Now how that narrative was formed was a variety of issues: documentaries, legislation, social media, the millennial generation all influenced that"

"The data showed and trends showed it was a SeaWorld without whales or it would probably be a world without SeaWorld...We are an organization that needs to have cashflow....Unfortunately, the trends have not been in the right direction for us....I know that's blunt."

.

Tekwardo said:

I worked for Walmart once. I guess that makes me more qualified than their current CEO to comment on the internal workings and problems with the company.

I'm not clear on how someone who works for a company in any capacity, leave aside the work Jeff was doing for the company, and someone who Googles PR posturing on the Internet are equivalent.

It goes back to the Kinzel/Ouimet thing at Cedar Fair. Ouimet represents a seismic shift in internal company thinking, strategy, priorities from what the Kinzel era was. Ouimet actually developed a market research/data analytics group. Do you think someone who worked at Cedar Fair 5 years ago would have any insight into today's Cedar Fair about major strategic issues?

The same can be said for SeaWorld and the Atchison/Manby move. Clearly, Manby represents an even larger seismic shift in in internal company thinking, strategy, market research, etc. than the Cedar Fair transition.

Lastly, I would reword your question a little bit to ask how the opinions of a former (I assume mid-level) employee under completely different leadership and the current CEO of the organization, are equivalent? Because those are really the two schools of thought being compared - not mine - I'm just repeating what the current CEO and CFO are starting in unscripted, public remarks.

Right, because with Jeff living in Orlando, it's clearly impossible for him to still be in contact with people that still work for the company. And when CEOs and CFOs know they're going to make public remarks, they never ever consider what they're going to say beforehand.

For the record, I don't live in Orlando but know people that work for and are connected with Sea World. Again, how does that stack up to what the CEO of a publicly traded company is saying vs the musings of someone who worked there in the past for a year on contract with their website?

You think I worked on their web site? You have no idea what the scope of my responsibility was.

Manby hasn't said anything untrue or incorrect. There's a whole lot of nuance to the success and failure of that company, and he gets it. That's why he's the CEO and we're talking about it on CoasterBuzz. Still doesn't mean my opinion is wrong or unqualified. I started when the film came out, ended when it was old news. I had perspective and context that you don't. Believe whatever you want.

I'm sorry, I forgot. You worked on their ticketing something or other. For a year. Three years ago. And I talk to and know people who have perspective and information you don't now. I tend to trust them. And the current CEO. And all those signs point to blackfish having a negative effect more than you say.

You can feel free to believe as you wish too.

Like I said, you have no idea what my responsibility was. You can chest thump all you want about what you think I do or don't know. I hope it makes you feel superswell.

How does SeaWorld know which customers have stopped going and why they have done so?

You're a programmer. You've mentioned publicly what you did there. I don't care what the scope of what you did was because that was years ago under different leadership. Leadership that was ousted.

Who's thumping chests? Calm down Beyonce'.

Yea, this is very very simple. Doesn't really matter who knows who, who worked where, what city people live in, etc...

Both the CEO and CFO have disclosed publicly, multiple times that the parks that are the most challenging are SeaWorld San Diego and SeaWorld San Antonio. All of the other parks in the system, including SeaWorld Orlando, are performing at expectations. Not debatable.

SeaWorld is ending orca whale shows over the next 1-2 years and immediately ending the orca breeding program.

The CEO says this is a direct result of society's shifting opinion on SeaWorld and orca captivity.

The customer base is shrinking. Society began to distrust SeaWorld and orcas under human care. According to their CEO, this shift in society's attitudes was due to a variety of factors such as documentaries (Blackfish), legislation and social media.

It was the CEO's assessment that for SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment to survive financially, it would be a SeaWorld without whales or a world without SeaWorld.

Certainly, SeaWorld has other issues outside of just the orcas. Atchison left Manby a sinking ship. But above are the facts from the current CEO regarding the most recognizable thing their entire brand is built around - orcas.

GoBucks89 said:

How does SeaWorld know which customers have stopped going and why they have done so?

There are a lot of ways to do that... some can be tied to individuals, some can be extrapolated from research. Most any company can find answers to those questions. Tracking consumer behavior is pretty easy these days because of the ever-shrinking use of cash, particularly at higher income levels.

I haven't really been a "programmer" in years.

I think everyone here are giving Blackfish too much credit. How many Sea World visitors or potential visitors actually saw it? I am betting not many of their customers even know that movie exists. The majority of people watching movies do not choose to watch documentaries.

We are familiar with Blackfish because we are amusement industry fans.

And that's all I've got to say about this lackluster topic.

LostKause said:

We are familiar with Blackfish because we are amusement industry fans.

I don't think anything could be further from the truth. CNN ran that **** practically on a loop for a while. It was (and still is to a certain degree) all over the news. This isn't enthusiast bubble stuff at all.

I think the "truth" lies somewhere between LK and LG. CNN at best attracts a few million viewers at most. (It's not even available where I'm currently living -- I have my choice of Fox News and MSNBC, and I'll take Doctor Maddow anytime, thank you), so I'm thinking that more people than LK expects knew about the movie and had it influence their decision to visit or not, but fewer people than LG expects even knew the movie existed.

slithernoggin said:
I think the "truth" lies somewhere between LK and LG.

That can be said about most any topic on multiple venues - politics, movie reviews, coaster BS, etc. Yet, they consistently can agree to disagree in a civilized fashion without personal attacks. Something I wish others could learn from...

This one doesn't require the typical CoasterBuzz overthinking to the extent of missing the point. People are aware of Blackfish. Click my link in the last post - there's 9 news stories published in the last 3 weeks talking about Blackfish - a movie that's three years old.

SeaWorld has a ****ing page on their website about the movie. They've created YouTube videos - like multiple videos - seriously, many videos - directly addressing the movie. They ran TV ads in a similar vein. SeaWorld has been bringing awareness of the movie to their audience!

People know about this movie. SeaWorld fans likely have an even higher level of awareness...not a lower one.

I will gladly concede that I'm prone to overthinking to the extent of missing the point.... hello ASD...

...but we here on Coasterbuzz are Internet-savvy. Many people are not. Hell, I spoke to a woman at work today who didn't know how to close a browser window. Folks like her couldn't find a way to watch Blackfish on line.

If the truth lies between the two totally differing angles of LG's and LK's observations, that means that both of us are still wrong. LOL