SeaWorld announces end to orca breeding

Blackfish had to hurt. My son's 5th grade class voted to cancel a Sea World trip and do NASA instead on the heels of the documentary. When kids are thinking that way it matters. But, Sea World's tepid response may have been more damaging than documentary. We know people who work at the parks who love those animals like children. The care is, by and large, exceptional and the fact they couldn't turn the conversation soon enough is troubling.

And, if they didn't see some of this coming then they are ignorant. I remember people protesting at Sea World Ohio every year for the first couple of weeks of the season...and this is back in the 80s and 90s. "The tanks aren't big enough" were legitimate complaints if you ask me. Why didn't these "natural habitats" get built years ago?

It is a shame.

escKey said:

The next generation will have no idea what an Orca is or what it looks like. It will become somewhat of a myth few people will ever be aware of.

What about all of the species of whales that have never been held in captivity? Are they myths to every generation?

Zoos in the 70s/80s were depressing to me. Seeing animals in concrete enclosures that were far too small. Today the enclosures are at least more natural and are much larger. Still have mixed feelings though. More so for some animals than others for whatever reason. Great apes seem totally bored and too close to human to be captive. And big cats are built for running with typically little room to do any of that.

Is it better to see animals live in captivity albeit not in native habitats acting natively or seeing them in various media formats in native habitats acting natively? Seems to me there is value in both. And definitely is value in the conversation and rehabilitative nature of zoos/preserves.

Must animals in captivity do tricks to entertain us for there to be educational value?

No, not at all. I think phasing out the shows is an excellent decision by SeaWorld.

Kilimanjaro Safari at Animal Kingdom fascinates me with how they created "non-enclosure enclosures" for the animals. It looks like open ground but the various animals are separated from each other.

Jeff said:

The "screaming" animals things was outed as fake by, I hate to even admit this, Fox News of all places. If that weren't enough, there has been an awful lot of line blurring about what happened under any particular owners of the animals.

Unfortunately this most likely fell on deaf (or muted) ears. Once humans believe something that they have "learned" and make a correlation, no matter how illusory, you could stack a mountain of research and facts directly in front of them and they will still believe the mythical version.

It's on old Psych study, but what makes a good firefighter?

The point being, belief perseverance is a real and powerful thing, hence, we still have people who won't vaccinate their kids. And I'm pretty sure Wakefield has been outed to be a fake. Over and over. And over.

There are a lot of animals I have never seen in real life, but I know they are real and I know what they look like. To assume they will become "mythical" seems like a pretty big stretch of one's imagination.

Jeff said:

I'll say it again, Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance. Not building anything in Orlando while raising prices, did.

I agree with everyone else - not sure where you are coming from on this one.

Blackfish had a major impact on SW over the past 24 months. As several people here can tell you anecdotal stories, so can I regarding non-activist type people I know choosing not to visit SW after watching the documentary.

The company has come out and admitted it has had an significant adverse effect on performance and brand image.

You blame the dramatic fall of revenue in 2014 to not adding anything in SW Orlando - yet you claim business stabilized in 2015 (which it didn't, by the way, the rate of decrease just slowed) and nothing was still added in Orlando.

Where they haven't added anything is Texas.

If you actually take the time to read the transcripts from the quarterly calls, you'd know all of their parks are performing at expected levels except SW California due to Blackfish and SW Texas due to uncompetitive market offerings.

Sagretti said:

Edit: Ironically, preventing the whales from breeding will probably be more cruel to them than keeping them in captivity.

I'm not sure the majority of their whales are born through natural breeding. I think only 1 or 2 of their whales are from natural, unplanned breedings.

Most is through artificial means - which they are stopping - which will eventually lead to the end of their orca collection.

Count me in the group that is happy the theatrical shows are ending and it will be a more natural type viewing experience, but disappointed in the end of the breeding program.

Chicago07 said:
I agree with everyone else - not sure where you are coming from on this one.

I'm not sure how I can spell this out without violating an NDA or getting too inside baseball. Manby has been on local TV talking about how the Orlando park has been way under-developed.

Jeff said:

I'm not sure how I can spell this out without violating an NDA or getting too inside baseball. Manby has been on local TV talking about how the Orlando park has been way under-developed.

How long ago were you with SeaWorld or are you still doing work for them?

When Blackfish first came out, the Atchison team refused to admit it had any effect on performance. By the end of his tenure and certainly with Manby, they've been pretty open and transparent that the negative brand image, activism, etc has really hurt their business which was spurred by the Blackfish documentary.

Right in the quarterly transcripts, all of the company's parks are performing at expected levels outside of San Diego due to Blackfish, brand image etc. and Texas due to uncompetitive market offerings.

I'm not there anymore, but read between the lines, look hard at the numbers, listen to what was said at the time. Blackfish agitated them to understand current public perception and taste in entertainment, certainly, but consider where they're putting the cap ex now, where they're putting more of it, where they've talked about growth potential, etc. Look at the attendance estimates from AECOM as a guide (even though I'm notorious for believing they're not terribly accurate). I think you can figure out which park has the most dramatic impact on the company, and which has underperformed, and draw some dotted lines. You can't compete without frequent cap ex. It's true of any competitive theme park market.

I don't know enough about what is happening at SeaWorld and why. But I wouldn't take what the company said in its public statements/SEC filings as determinative. On its face, blaming Blackfish is plausible. So no SEC violation issues with going with that as the reason for bad financial performance even if there were other factors which may have been as significant or more so. But if the other factors were more significant, management isn't likely to admit to them because to do so would be to admit to the world that management doesn't know what it is doing and/or made big mistakes. Much better to point the finger at the big bad movie that CNN showed repeatedly and which presents a skewed view of an extreme animal rights group.

...and now I see that an orca (Takara, 24) in San Antonio is pregnant.

Funny timing...

Yeah, "years of controversy." For the sake of God, this has officially reached ridiculous. Poll the American people, I guarantee no more than 20% give two effs about captive orcas. PETA and similar animal rights groups have outsized influence in politics because they are activists, and we all know that that's what this is about. I've never seen an orca in real life, and, since I have no plans to visit SeaWorld any time soon, I guess I will never see one.

"Nature found a way!"

Sorry, I was actually about to reply to you but you did before I was able to edit my last entry.

"You can't compete without frequent cap ex. It's true of any competitive theme park market."

This might explain this move better, and would actually make more sense. Orcas are stupidly expensive to maintain and don't bring in much more revenue than some other random fish exhibit could, plus seaworld has giant roller coasters suddenly, which are less expensive to maintain than a 2-ton water animal and just as easily marketable.

In which case, this makes sense.

Here is what I don't quite get...why stop them from breeding naturally? I don't hear an outpouring of criticism toward zoos that have aggressive breeding programs for all types of animals. Giraffes, elephants, lions, etc are being bred with nobody really thinking twice. Is the difference that the giraffe isn't being put through 7 shows a day?

If so, then why can't Sea World build more natural habitats for the orcas and then let them just do their thing? I would pay for an admission ticket just to see an orca much the same way as I happily paid for a ticket to the Georgia Aquarium to see those huge whale fish.

I have always enjoyed seeing dolphins, whales, etc just behaving as they wanted vs being taught to jump, splash, etc. It was way more fun for me to look at the Cedar Point dolphins from the viewing windows down below, when a show wasn't taking place, than it was for me to watch them tail wave goodbye.

I just got back from Sea World San Diego and, as schmaltzy as it is, I've always loved the big Shamu "Isn't Planet Earth great?" show. I've seen orcas in the wild and it just isn't as inspirational or breathtaking. I have no problem with an orca flipping in a pool or splashing the crowd.

Jeff said:

I'm not there anymore, but read between the lines, look hard at the numbers, listen to what was said at the time. Blackfish agitated them to understand current public perception and taste in entertainment, certainly, but consider where they're putting the cap ex now, where they're putting more of it, where they've talked about growth potential, etc. Look at the attendance estimates from AECOM as a guide (even though I'm notorious for believing they're not terribly accurate). I think you can figure out which park has the most dramatic impact on the company, and which has underperformed, and draw some dotted lines. You can't compete without frequent cap ex. It's true of any competitive theme park market.

I'm not arguing any of that.

What I am refuting is your statement that "Blackfish had little impact on the company's performance. Not building anything in Orlando while raising prices did."

Blackfish was the catalyst that spurred this conversation about orca captivity. I, along with many others on here, have said we know several people who are casual observers, far from activists, who have chosen not to visit SeaWorld after seeing the documentary. Anecdotal, yes, but seems to be a trend.

Further, as I've stated before, if you read the transcript of the calls, Orlando isn't really what's dragging down the performance.

2015 Q2 call (8/6/15) Marc Swanson: "So, my comments on the pass visitation were specific to Texas, outside of that park we have seen strong pass visitation and that was purposeful... So, outside of Texas we've been successful with that"

2015 Q2 call (8/6/15) Joel Manby: "Our attendance for the first half of 2015 primarily benefited from an improvement in demand at most of our park locations and was largely offset by record levels of rainfall in Texas and continued brand challenges in California"

2015 Q2 call (8/6/15) Marc Swanson: " Also contributing to the decline was reduced attendance in Texas, primarily related to record levels of rainfall during the quarter and reduced attendance in California primarily related to brand challenges. The unfavorable impact of these factors was partially offset by an improvement in demand at our other park locations, including Florida"

2015 Q2 call (8/6/15) Joel Manby: "Other than that, all of our other parks in general were doing well. We don't want to split out specifically Tampa or Orlando, but overall we were pleased with the performance there."

2015 Q2 call (8/6/15) Joel Manby: "we have admitted that there are reputation issues in California, we've said that publically"

2015 Q3 call (11/5/15) Joel Manby "Attendance increased at all but two of our park locations. However, these gains were offset by decreases in attendance in California and Texas"

2015 Q3 call (11/5/15) Joel Manby "I can say, though, that the rate of decline in California is slowing dramatically as we continue our long-term reputation campaign. And in Texas, we're implementing plans to improve results with changes to its pass products and through our upcoming attractions plans."

2015 Q3 call (11/5/15) Pete Crage "During the quarter, we reported increased attendance at all but two of our park locations...However, overall attendance for the third quarter declined slightly due to decreased attendance in California and Texas. We believe the decline in attendance in California was related to our continued challenges with the SeaWorld brand in that state...The decline in attendance in Texas was related to a reduction in promotional offerings and passholder visitation, along with a lack of significant competitive offerings at this location."

2015 Q3 call (11/5/15) Pete Crage "On the Texas park and more broadly, the company, to put it into perspective, we identified these two parks as being soft for the year...So those two parks we really want to isolate for investors and ourselves where we're seeing our softness.

2015 Q4 call (2/25/16) Pete Crage "The improvement reflects a favorable operating schedule for our fall events, offset by a decline in attendance at our Texas location."

2015 Q4 call (2/25/16) Pete Crage "Attendance improved at all but two of our park locations.... The impact of these factors was largely offset by reduced attendance in Texas and California."

2015 Q4 call (2/25/16) Pete Crage "the decline in Texas primarily related to a reduction in passholder visitation due to changes made to the Fun Card product along with a lack of significant competitive offerings"

2015 Q4 call (2/25/16) Pete Crage "The decline in California in 2015 primarily relates to continued SeaWorld brand challenges at this location"

And I can't find it at the moment, but it was an alert email from one of the investor sites, discussing how SeaWorld actually disclosed their internal market research and how their favorability numbers skyrocket after stopping orca breeding along with a lot of other interesting research that shows SeaWorld (at least under Manby) admits and realizes how Blackfish really started this seismic shift of public opinion and perception.... and how it has clearly affected performance.

You're making a case about something that happened in 2013/14 by quoting 2015/16? I don't know what to tell you. You're going to think whatever you want to think.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue.

Orlando isn't the problem that's dragging company performance.

It's SeaWorld brand issues in California stemming from Blackfish and evidently a whole slew of issues in Texas from weather to lack of a competitive product offering to park leadership.

Pouring money into the SeaWorld brand reputation campaign (essentially fighting back Blackfish and the narrative it's led to) has slowed the rate of bleeding.

If you say so. I was just there at the time.