Quote from Shapiro; "There's no moratorium"...But,...

---

Pete said:look at Geauga Lake. There is a park that had its reputation tarnished by Six Flags, and Cedar Fair is getting painfully slow results in getting that park back on track.

---

Six Flags had nothing to do with Geaugas current situation. A 40% drop in attendance probably reflected the 40% of the park that was closed during CF's first year of ownership. the flat 2nd year is probably a result of the public realizing that CF simply moved the waterpark to the other side of the lake, and didn't "really" add much new.

---

A bad reputation is not made golden by adding some parades, costumed characters and official fruit products.

---

And it's very clear that adding Cedar Fairs impeccable service doesn't turn around a park either.

---

Six Flags had nothing to do with Geaugas current situation.

---

Wow. Is there anyone here who'll agree with that nugget of wisdom?

LOL...no kidding.

Is that just like the USA/George W. Bush has nothing to do with the current situation in Iraq? ;) ;)

---

The folks who go with their "park inspector" hats on are just looking for reason to say "AHA! Gotcha Shapiro, nothing has changed"! These people are more interested in being *right*, than they are the genuine recovery of this company.

We'll see alot of that this summer...

---

If there's one thing that I can be absolutely sure of with the chain this year, it's that.

---

rollergator said:

---

DWeaver said:
All the decisions and budget for this year had already been booked by the previous regime. There's little Shapiro can do other than make promises until the 2007 budget kicks in. So no quick cures and major changes are likely to happen beyond what we've already seen.

---

Two things that CAN, and SHOULD, be *points of emphasis*, that have no direct bearing on expenses, that will show the intention of changing...ATTITUDE and ATMOSPHERE. Certainly not *quick fix* kinds of things, but stuff that shows guests that the "Under New Management" sign out front is promising a better future...

---

Gator.. both the changing of atmosphere and attitude have bearings, direct or indirect, on expenses. How? Extra training, a new company to actually retrain your employees, and new trainers all the way from the top of the chain.. down. Why? For that ''attitude-adjustment'' that is sorely needed. That will, affect expenses.

As will atmosphere. You're telling me.. all new landscaping, signage, those garbage cans, the new catering tents at SFKK ($300k), the resurfacing of SFA's waterpark, the decorated footers for Tatsu, etc.. won't cost money?

Maybe I just didn't read your post correctly? I don't know....

---

Still its the parking ect that adds up and makes it unaffordable and unplanned extra cost. You just can't take picnic lunches to most big parks anymore. They've done everything they can to get rid of it. 300-400 bucks is a big expense for a day out with the family. Unless your names Bill Gates. The majority of people have to plan trips like that and budget for them.

I still have a hobby thats cheaper and offers great value to enjoy. RACING!

---

Chuck.. as far as I know, most parks don't allow you to bring food into the park, but they have no problem with guests getting their hands stamped, leaving the park, and having a tailgate party in the parking lot. While, imo, it might be a safety/traffic concern for park guests to have a fold out table, grill, blanket, chairs, et al all over the parking lot with cars driving thru at 25+ mph, it's still allowed. Some parks, like SFGAd for example, even have actual picnicking areas at the front of their lots.

And seriously.. if you had kids Chuck, do you REALLY think they'd enjoy an evening at a Nascar event better than splashing around all day in the water play elements of Balin's Jungleland, Looney Tunes Seaport, and Bugs Bunny National Park? Come on dude!

AFAIK, most families do plan and budget for park trips like that. Families, unlike single enthusiasts, can't just "up and go" on a whim, like we can.......

---

rollergator said:

Two things that CAN, and SHOULD, be *points of emphasis*, that have no direct bearing on expenses, that will show the intention of changing...ATTITUDE and ATMOSPHERE. Certainly not *quick fix* kinds of things,

---

Actualy, I would think that this would be the *easiest* "quick fix". Think about it, most of the workers (that interact with visitors) are seasonal, i.e. huge turnover. Just be more selective about the type of people that you hire. Then be sure to let them know "Smile or be fired!" :) Those pretty smiles would then, in turn, distract form the faded paint and such. Moreover, institute some of the Disney rules:

Smile and say Have a nice day. (magical day in Disney terms)
If you see trash, pick it up.
If a kid drops an ice cream cone, give him another one for free.

Those dont cst much, but could make a *HUGE* impact on someone's day.
lata, jeremy
--who hopes they dont go as far as the workers at Disney's "Ohana" restaurant and start calling everyone 'cousin' (that got old quick...)

^If my memory serves me correctly, those things were already in place, it's just that most of the employees didn't follow through on it. All I know is that they're removing Iron Eagle from SFA, and I'm a happy camper!

Exactly.....Rob, I'm not saying that extra training in guest relations doesn't cost money, and that IS definitely needed.

But, last time I checked the rate schedule, smiles are free, and who gets enough of THOSE from their bosses? ESPECIALLY in the service industries, where employees are routinely paid "ridiculously low wages"...

jeremy, you're right now that you mention it, a smile DOES brighten your day right away...it IS a quick fix! :)

But it also changes the CULTURE, the work environment for employees, and the park environment for guests...

edit: The more I consider the idea, I think all the *underperforming* parks should get "Under New Management" signs for the front entrance...
*** Edited 3/1/2006 2:06:56 AM UTC by rollergator***

No, Im not saying kids would rather be at the races. Although some kids (Like me) take to it really well.

I was comparing cost vs entertainment value.

For some people it's three or four hours of bowling for 15-20 bucks.

For some it's getting together with friends and playing cards for cost of drinks and snacks.

40-50-60 is still a pretty good deal for a full day of entertainment but the upper reaches of that are nearing the limits of the average familys ability to take part.

I don't consider disney in the same class as the other parks. Its almost always planned for well in advance. Even for us enthusiast.

---

Pete said:look at Geauga Lake. There is a park that had its reputation tarnished by Six Flags, and Cedar Fair is getting painfully slow results in getting that park back on track.

---

I Actually think removing the Animals had a major impact on attendance, not Six Flags... Compare the attendance numbers, when the park was SFWoA it had over 1 million visitors+ a year now its less, way less then that.

Sure Geauga Lake lost some visitors because the animals are gone. But, you have to look at how attendance dropped over the years when it was a Six Flags park with the animals.

Over a million a year is terrible when it was SFWoA. When the parks were Sea World and Geauga Lake they did about 2.5 to 3 million combined.

---

j_o_e_y__ said:
Would you rather kids be at an amusement park or out egging houses and stealing cars?

---

I'd rather parents actually "parent" their kids instead of pushing them on nannies, malls, television and whatever else they can find so the fact they had kids doesn't have any effect on their "pre-kids" quality of life.