Quote from Shapiro; "There's no moratorium"...But,...

Remember that not all entertainment is valued equally. You spend next to nothing on a good book that takes quite awhile to finish. Theme parks aren't like that, but they aren't quite like the movies either. I think Six Flags is better off having lower admission prices for most of their parks. If you are going to charge $20 extra per person, you're going to have to deliver real quality (especially for families who they are trying to target).

I do agree with the increase in season pass prices though. *** Edited 2/28/2006 4:50:31 AM UTC by Cedar Creek Mine Ride***

I'd like to third DW's comments here. :)

It isn't a matter of what's overpriced and what's not, it's a matter of what's overpriced to you.

The gate price would cost my family of four $240 at the big SF parks plus $15 parking.

Is a day at the park for the family worth $255 to us? You betcha. People often look at us like we're insane when they find out how much we spend on amusement parks each year.

Would I spend that same $255 to see Barney On Ice? Nope. A baseball game? Nope. A live theatre prodcution on Broadway? Nope. The second coming? Well, maybe if the seats were really good. ;)

Those things are overpriced when compared to my interest level.

This is kind of how the world works - something is either worth it to you or it's not. You decide how to spend your money in ways you feel appropriate.

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And for those of you talking about how 60 dollar tickets are reasonable, keep in mind they are trying to appeal more to families who have to buy more than one. We are not talking about single enthusiasts that have a large disposible income because they don't have dependants and who only have to buy one ticket.

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Just wanted to quote that because it's generally backwards when compared to traditional thinking.

How many enthusiasts do you think pay gate price to enter a park? Hell, how many even use single day passes - even at a discount? Enthusiasts in a vast majority of cases are passholders - especially at SF where $50 can get you into 30 different parks.

Read that last line again. How ridiculous is that? How can you possible make money running a business like that?

Imagine the outcry when season pass prices take the same jump next year. And I think some of you are in for a big surprise. I wouldn't guess we're looking at a cute little $20 increase. I'd expect something like a threefold increase at the very, very least.

"I think that Six Flags, overall, is still undervalued...We offer ten hours of entertainment for $39.99 per person at The Great Escape. How much does it cost to go to the movies these days? I think part of the problem is that Six Flags became the discount kings. They devalued the parks and the industry."

Yep. Go ahead and read between the lines. 2006 is the last time you will ever see SF season passes this cheap again. People say they don't have a problem with it now, because they don't have to. But you can bet we'll get the usual whining this fall when it becomes a reality.

Also keep in mind that "quality" isn't the same for everyone. Some people are quite happy with 17 rollercoasters and nothing more, and you know what? Good for them. It's not up to me to judge what brings joy to someone else. I can only control my own wallet.

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"I think CP had the better idea on how to price for the family."

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Of course you do, RavenTTD! *winkwink* I'm kidding. Sort of. ( :

And another thing.. price gougers? They give away the gate with regards to season passes and buy one-get one free coke/wendy's/burger king discounts. They've tried to make that up by charging extra (and more than the competition) for 'pay extra' attractions and food and beverage and whatnot. That obviously hasn't worked.

I'm not holding my expectations unrealistically high this year unlike some, who will go into the parks like 'Park Inspectors' and expect a 'Disney-par' experience and then come on here and complain about it.. like they expected the parks to do an 'about-face' in like, three months. Unrealistic, imo.

I expect to see more characters, more garbage cans, fresh paint, slightly-better-than-previous-years employees.. and more of them. Anything beyond that is holding the bar a bit too high in my opinion. Especially for a guy who's only been behind the reigns of a company saddled with 2.whatever? billion dollars of debt for less than half a year.

2007? Now THAT'S a different story. *** Edited 2/28/2006 8:44:21 AM UTC by RobCoasting***

Ok Moosh I need to know, HOW did you manage to ride Goliath Jr? :-)

-Tina

A person who is an adult now was likely not always so. It's very possible for an adult to have ridden Goliath, Jr. (a previous incarnation at least). For a person to ride as an adult is a different story

I don't think the general public will pay any more money to get into the parks. I think $40 is probobly there limit.

^^^I need a Disney nut to reach into their memory bank and figure out how many years ago a one day pass to a Disney park was $40.

1998.... http://allearsnet.com/tix/tixpix90.htm

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RobCoasting said:
I'm not holding my expectations unrealistically high this year unlike some, who will go into the parks like 'Park Inspectors' and expect a 'Disney-par' experience and then come on here and complain about it.. like they expected the parks to do an 'about-face' in like, three months. Unrealistic, imo.

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I think that is a pretty accurate summary of how things will be at Six Flags this year.

I wouldn't expect to see a significant increase in attendance this year either. For those who think otherwise, just look at Geauga Lake. There is a park that had its reputation tarnished by Six Flags, and Cedar Fair is getting painfully slow results in getting that park back on track.

A bad reputation is not made golden by adding some parades, costumed characters and official fruit products. Even if Shapiro can deliver all the customer service things he is talking about, expect a long, slow recovery to take place. If the company survives that long.

Re: Moosh & Goliath Jr...remember, before this "new" coaster came in, it had been sitting in SFMM's boneyard. Before THAT, it was a rideable coaster without the *firm* height restriction it currently has...

If you need to ride a Bradley & Kaye, just go down to Knott's....that's the park down the road where everyone's happier and friendlier... ;)

That's correct. Goliath Jr. was the park's original kiddie coaster ;)

Pete and Rob, you have hit the nose on the head.

The press releases, price changes, parades, characters appearances and painting of rides are all small moves of a company already strapped in for 2006. All the decisions and budget for this year had already been booked by the previous regime. There's little Shapiro can do other than make promises until the 2007 budget kicks in. So no quick cures and major changes are likely to happen beyond what we've already seen.

The folks who go with their "park inspector" hats on are just looking for reason to say "AHA! Gotcha Shapiro, nothing has changed"! These people are more interested in being *right*, than they are the genuine recovery of this company.

We'll see alot of that this summer... *** Edited 2/28/2006 4:24:29 PM UTC by DWeaver***

If you check out the OC Register, Shapiro mentions that the next attraction could an interactive shooter similar to the Scooby Doo/Buzz Lightyear style. To me, that's a positive sign that they are thinking about investing in that kind of attraction instead of what I previously feared, jr. carnival rides aimed at small kids. Imo, the interactive shooters and 4D theaters serve as good examples of all ages attractions that really could bring balance to their coaster heavy parks.

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DWeaver said:
All the decisions and budget for this year had already been booked by the previous regime. There's little Shapiro can do other than make promises until the 2007 budget kicks in. So no quick cures and major changes are likely to happen beyond what we've already seen.

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Two things that CAN, and SHOULD, be *points of emphasis*, that have no direct bearing on expenses, that will show the intention of changing...ATTITUDE and ATMOSPHERE. Certainly not *quick fix* kinds of things, but stuff that shows guests that the "Under New Management" sign out front is promising a better future...

Absolutely. I hope Shapiro's next "park tour" is a surprise one in July. Because he's already laid out what he expects. It falls into the GMs laps now.

As for Del Holland...this guy must talk a good game, because he is a horrible GM. Nice guy, but terrible when it comes to follow up. Not sure where his job stands at this point...I've heard he might be moving or retiring or something. I can't imagine Shapiro was all that impressed by him.

Really, The price to visit is the price to visit. Like someone mentioned 40-50-60 dollars? It should be in the high end of that range for the larger parks. SFMM, SFOT and lower range for the smaller parks, SFKK.

Still its the parking ect that adds up and makes it unaffordable and unplanned extra cost. You just can't take picnic lunches to most big parks anymore. They've done everything they can to get rid of it. 300-400 bucks is a big expense for a day out with the family. Unless your names Bill Gates. The majority of people have to plan trips like that and budget for them.

I still have a hobby thats cheaper and offers great value to enjoy. RACING!

I can go any saturday night and see the next Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart race, Enjoy about 7 hours of on track competition, Bring all the food and drink I want for $12 and actually meet the drivers after the races. Hell they come out an sit with us when there classes aren't running. I have personally met or know several current NASCAR and IRL drivers from this hobby. I've also worked on their cars at times.

Anyhow, I agree with the discouted chain comments he made. The parks basically became cheap babysitters, Much like some malls do, and left unsupervised this can lead to uncofortable situations for some to visit.

Chuck

Would you rather kids be at an amusement park or out egging houses and stealing cars?

Problem is some are out doing the bad things at the parks! Just cause they are at a park doesn't mean they aren't going to do something bad.

Most of the rule breakers at parks are unsupervised teens. Then when someone says something to them about what they did. They say something to the effect of "Well no one else had a problem with me doing it" or "I am just going up to meet up with my friends" or "I'll smoke wherever I want". That last one was said by someone not even old enough to buy cigarettes in the state where the park was. PRICELESS!

^LOL, too true, Dragon!