Quote from Shapiro; "There's no moratorium"...But,...

Monday, February 27, 2006 4:27 AM
http://themeparks.about.com/od/sixflagsarticles/a/shapiro2006.htm

A moratorium by any other name...well, you all know the rest. With that said, this value-deversify-balance-pendulum theory of his does make sense.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:41 AM
My two favorite quotes from Shapiro in the article:

"We have 17 roller coasters at Six Flags Magic Mountain--that's too many."

and

"I think that Six Flags, overall, is still undervalued...We offer ten hours of entertainment for $39.99 per person at The Great Escape. How much does it cost to go to the movies these days? I think part of the problem is that Six Flags became the discount kings. They devalued the parks and the industry."

I still can't help but like what I'm hearing.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:57 AM
^^I totally agree. He seems to be SAYING all the right things. Let's just hope that his actions show the same thing as what is coming out of his mouth.
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Monday, February 27, 2006 9:52 AM
As a new stock holder this is good reading.This is what we all know to be the problem...he sounds like he is ready to fix it only time will tell..Iam glad to see the coaster wars end. Now when CP drops in a 500ft monster they will hold the record for sometime...???
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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:53 PM
Except there are not 17 coasters at SFMM. There are 15 operational coasters (Flashback is SBNO). One of those is Goliath Jr., which excludes about 99% of SFMM audience and is a really poor ride for even kids. Also, Canyon Blaster is another jr. kids coaster, as is Goldrusher. So really, there are only 12/13 (Ninja is debatable as a jr. coaster) coasters (after Tatsu)that appeal to those dreaded teens & thrill seekers. Of those Collosuss and Superman run at 1/2 capacity at all times, and Psyclone has fallen into "painful" category. So that leaves 9 coaster choices where guests can expect a decent ride.

And it's easy to look back at SFMM and think they have too many coasters. But what they have achieved is now that the coasters serve as a core backbone of the park, and now the park can continue to expand into other styles of attractions without having a massive attendance loss. He talks about ROI frequently, but what time frame does he use? 1 yr? 2 yr? 3 months? If he really understood what Disney does, high upfront cost but the rides typically last decades, so traditional thinking should not apply. *** Edited 2/27/2006 9:54:51 PM UTC by DBJ***

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Monday, February 27, 2006 5:00 PM
Last time I checked people put Junior coasters in their track lists, DBJ...and I have a Flashback credit so it has been open....
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Monday, February 27, 2006 5:01 PM
Ok, fine. 12 coasters. That's still too many. $39.99 may be "undervalued" for access to 12 coasters but it is still more then I'd like to pay. I'd rather pay $20 for 6 coasters.
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Monday, February 27, 2006 5:03 PM
A caaster is a coaster. I think when he says "17 is too many" he really means theres not enough variety among the other rides.

Cedar point has a good balance of coasters and rides, but even they need a little more variety, but it's happening.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 5:07 PM
Except there are not 17 coasters at SFMM. There are 15 operational coasters (Flashback is SBNO). One of those is Goliath Jr., which excludes about 99% of SFMM audience and is a really poor ride for even kids. Also, Canyon Blaster is another jr. kids coaster, as is Goldrusher. So really, there are only 12/13 (Ninja is debatable as a jr. coaster) coasters (after Tatsu)that appeal to those dreaded teens & thrill seekers. Of those Collosuss and Superman run at 1/2 capacity at all times, and Psyclone has fallen into "painful" category. So that leaves 9 coaster choices where guests can expect a decent ride.

Anticipating the conversation between the Guinness people and whoever's in charge at SFMM by then, i.e., at Tatsu's completion ("Is Del Holland gone yet?").

"But SFMM should count as two since it has two tracks, same for Colossus".

"So, let's let you count those, now you're still only back to 14, and now CP gets an extra one for Gemini"....ROFL! :)

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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:03 PM
Parades, fireworks, character meals - sounds like he's been looking at another park model, one with big round ears.

Good stuff. I hope it works.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:45 PM
Yes, movies are like 8$ for a movie, which is too damn much. Theme parks should be cheap, and affordable fun, they shouldn't charge absurd amounts; which is what they do. Seriously, most of the Six Flags parks have broken rides and long lines, which ususally only lead to about 5 to 10 rides in that "10 hours of entertainment." And personally, my 40 bucks is not worth those 5 to 10 rides. If I get atleast 15 rides in for the day, then maybe its worth it. The prices for amusment parks are getting way to high. its almost 70 dollars for 1 day at 1 disney park. To me, I would never pay that much, I'm sorry, that is way to much.
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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:53 PM
There is no way an adult has ridden Goliath Jr., it's physically not possible. And the question isn't about credit counts , it's the mentality of whether or not the focus on new coasters at SFMM has helped or damaged the park. It's a knee jerk reaction to look at the number and say it's too many and not the quality of the attraction or status of SBNO. It's not about numbers on a spreadsheet, it's about the quality of the experience. There is a reason that SFMM is and has been one of the top three parks in attendance for many years. That hard fact should be a clue that the park has reached a customer base that keeps returning. *** Edited 2/28/2006 1:09:47 AM UTC by DBJ***
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Monday, February 27, 2006 8:09 PM
There is no way an adult has ridden Goliath Jr., it's physically not possible.

I've ridden it. Many, many times in fact. Anyone wanna guess how that was possible? ;)

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Monday, February 27, 2006 8:45 PM
I've never ridden Goliath Jr., but I'm guessing it's no smaller than Jr. Gemini @ CP. As far as Shapiro, for me, it's hard to argue his points thus far. I also like what I hear from SF these days.
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Monday, February 27, 2006 9:26 PM

DBJ said:
Except there are not 17 coasters at SFMM. There are 15 operational coasters (Flashback is SBNO). One of those is Goliath Jr., which excludes about 99% of SFMM audience and is a really poor ride for even kids. Also, Canyon Blaster is another jr. kids coaster, as is Goldrusher. So really, there are only 12/13 (Ninja is debatable as a jr. coaster) coasters (after Tatsu)that appeal to those dreaded teens & thrill seekers. Of those Collosuss and Superman run at 1/2 capacity at all times, and Psyclone has fallen into "painful" category. So that leaves 9 coaster choices where guests can expect a decent ride.

You also forgot to exclude Goliath from the park's coaster count because its track length is too short given the height and we all know this is unacceptable so its not a roller coaster; and also Colossus doesn't count either because it's really old; and also Psyclone doesn't count because nobody really likes it so it excludes about 90% of the audience; and while I'm at it X also doesn't count because it just doesn't look like a roller coaster -- oh and I totally forgot Revolution its track style is really outdated and it has one loop so it shouldn't be counted as a roller coaster either. So I guess that leaves us with...7 roller coasters at Magic Mountain! And to think Shapiro would falsely claim Magic Mountain has 17 coasters. That Mark is a silly billy!


And it's easy to look back at SFMM and think they have too many coasters. But what they have achieved is now that the coasters serve as a core backbone of the park, and now the park can continue to expand into other styles of attractions without having a massive attendance loss.

Shapiro always has great analogies. One of my favorites was when he compared Six Flags' coaster building spree as a drug addiction. When you build a coaster year after year, the parks become more and more dependant on a new coaster to maintain attendance or to even see an increase. You have to continually build more and more to receive the same response from the local market.

EDIT: spelling *** Edited 2/28/2006 2:28:39 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***

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Monday, February 27, 2006 10:31 PM
Forgive me if I offend anyone.. but if you think forty, fifty, or hell, even sixty-plus bucks is too much for ten to twelve-plus hours of entertainment.. then please.. have fun somewhere else. Or stay home.

If you spent twelve hours going to the movies and figure you saw six, two hour movies in that time span.. that would add up to 54.00 plus tax at nine dollars a movie. And all you'd have done is sit in front of a movie screen all day. Fun!

Or.. perhaps you wanted to drop your hard earned money on a seat to a Billy Joel concert? or to a Broadway show? or to a Professional sports game? or to your state fair? Oh wait.. you most likely wouldn't be spending your money there either, as they all cost MUCH more than a day's admission to a Six Flags park AND they last a much shorter span of time than a full day's admission to Six Flags!

Geeze....

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Monday, February 27, 2006 10:58 PM

Mamoosh said:
There is no way an adult has ridden Goliath Jr., it's physically not possible.

I've ridden it. Many, many times in fact. Anyone wanna guess how that was possible?


I know........ ;)

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Monday, February 27, 2006 11:07 PM
Money isn't an object for my entertainment choices Rob, provided I feel I'm getting my money's worth. I have always been shocked that going to an all day theme park has always been so cheap, especially where season passes are concerned.

You'll never hear me whine about prices. If I don't feel something is worth it I simply won't go. For the most part, prices would have to be pretty darn high to keep me from enjoying a day at a theme park.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 11:14 PM
I'll second DW. Case in point: at least once a year I spend the money to fly from Los Angeles to New York, rent a car and drive to Knoebels for the weekend. And I get 2 nights hotel rooms, too.

That's about $600 total. For ONE PARK! And yet I still feel I'm getting an outstanding value for my money.

In the last years few years I've made the trip to Knoebels twice. That's still more than I visited SFMM which is 40 miles down the road and infinitely less money spent for me to visit.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 11:40 PM
"I think part of the problem is that Six Flags became the discount kings."

What the hell?? SF has become the price gougers of the industry. Just because a few of their parks have stupid prices at the gate, that does not change the fact that you have to pay 13 bucks for a lousy meal after you pay 15 bucks to park. All over these boards people have been complaining about what SF charges and saying that parks like HW have the right model, but now that there is a new leader everyone falls in line.

And for those of you talking about how 60 dollar tickets are reasonable, keep in mind they are trying to appeal more to families who have to buy more than one. We are not talking about single enthusiasts that have a large disposible income because they don't have dependants and who only have to buy one ticket. I think CP had the better idea on how to price for the family. *** Edited 2/28/2006 4:41:22 AM UTC by RavenTTD***

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