PTC announcement coming

Friday, June 22, 2007 11:03 PM
If they are to be better than what PTC is already offering, then it might be in Kemah's best interests to ask for a change of coaster cars.

I don't want to see what the current PTC's will do to the Boardwalk Bullet after one full year of operation. That is exactly the type of coaster that PTC's are absolutely not designed for. *** Edited 6/23/2007 3:06:41 AM UTC by Coasterphan***

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Friday, June 22, 2007 11:29 PM

Jeff said:
What a great site PTC has, with all non-functional links. That's really professional.

I'm sure any park operator looking for new roller coaster rolling stock is going to make their decision based on PTC's website.

"Let me Google 'new coaster trains'. Oh look, this PTC company has some promise- let's buy from them."

Yeah... right. Like the website really matters. The fact that they've been producing coasters and coaster-related stuff for more than a century probably means more to any amusement park operator than the appearance and functionality of their website.

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Friday, June 22, 2007 11:46 PM
Jeff's avatar Dude, this is 2007. Who announces a product with a non-functional Web site? Remind me to never ask you for marketing advice.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Friday, June 22, 2007 11:52 PM
If I own a company that's well known worldwide, and existed for over a century, I might not lose sleep if I didn't get the contract for the only company that's never heard of me, because I don't have a website. *** Edited 6/23/2007 3:53:13 AM UTC by Coasterphan***
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Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:25 AM
eightdotthree's avatar If your website is that bad, then how bad is your attention to your customers? At the very least take the site down and put up your contact info.

I hope these are better than the trains the put on the Raging Wolf Bobs way back when. I would hate to see the Ravine Flyer have a poor opening because of trains. I am pretty excited to see them though, PTC has needed a new train design for awhile if you ask me. Are the redesigning the restraint too?


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Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:44 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if PTC would exchange the trains for the cost difference on Voyage instead of whinning on how bad the coaster is on them?

It would probably save HW at ton of money as well.

Just my opinion. YMMV but Im not the biggest fan.

Chuck

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:59 AM

RideMan said:
But will it be?

The question is, what will be the operational characteristics of the new cars? If the cars are built the same as the current crop of articulated cars, we'll see higher roll rates than the current cars can do (thanks to the shorter wheelbase) but possibly still not as high as what the Millennium Flyers can do because of the extra axles. My question is, will this new car do anything to solve the yaw problem (and the fact that PTC cars can't)? Or does that become a moot point once the wheelbase is this short?

Yeah, I want to see the rendering, too. 8-)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.


Bascially the first car on a MF train on every car IMHO

Chuck

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:46 PM
Jeff's avatar There's something wrong with the trains on The Voyage? That's weird, because I could swear people compare it to the second coming.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:55 PM
Jeff, I never said there was something wrong with the trains or the coaster. But it's pretty clear they aren't agreeing with each other.

However obviously if you've ridden it. Somethings not right. the second and third cars bang around and sound like the wheels aren't turning but just skidding along.

And the fact they have to retrack sections daily.

WELL?

A eye witness told me that Tom made a comment on how bad the coaster was on his trains.

As for Voyage? To me it is the second comming. Too bad it's taking thousands of dollars a day to keep it in prime condition. Expecially when the track and the structure or the design AREN'T THE PROBLEM!

Oh, Same can be said for Beast and a hundred other PTC equipt coasters out there Whats it been, 7 years and Lightning racers still not been retracked?.

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:15 PM
^See I love the layout of Voyage, but I hate the ride experience and I think that it caused by the trains that are on it. I think that if you ran MFlyers on it, it would be a 100 x's better. The wheels sounded like they were grinding the entire way when we rode the Voyage on Tuesday. I still say like Charles that with different trains this coaster would be so much better than what it currently is. I too am worried with the amount of money they have to sock into this thing daily to keep it from tearing itself apart. Thank goodness it is at Holiday World and not some other park.
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Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:22 PM
matt.'s avatar

Rob Ascough said:
Yeah... right. Like the website really matters.

Then why bother having one?

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:30 PM
Websites IMHO are great for looking up information. Getting directions ect.

However where service is oriented. It's always best to be one on one. Something aparenlty Tom does well, Something the Gravity Group aparently does well too. their websites not updated yearly but they have the contact information and basic information on their product and history.

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:30 PM
rollergator's avatar "Then why bother having one?"

^Because they thought the internet might take off, so they staked a small position. When the whole internet thing turned out to be a playground for a select few, with no mass appeal, decided to just let the site grow stale.

;)

Seriously though, more likely idea is that you wouldn't want to be bombarded by a bunch of questions from enthusiasts. The real customers already know you, and your product line, and I'll bet there a nice presentation package set up individually for the face-to-face deliberations, negotiations, whatever...

Still forced to wonder how the *coupling* of the trains might differ from that of a MFlyer train.

LOL, Chuck messed up my ^arrow^. ;)
*** Edited 6/23/2007 6:32:41 PM UTC by rollergator***


You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 3:19 PM
DantheCoasterman's avatar I have to aree that Voyage would DEFENITELY benefit from MFlyers. I was at HW yesterday. I'll write a TR soon but man this year The Voyage has been killing my legs, and below the belt. Also, from the first reverse-banked turn/hop until the brake-run my head felt like it was being held against a jackhammer. Sadly, it is now dropping to my #3, after my trip to CP the 20th & 21st..........:(

I am also wondering how the restraints will be, hopefully they will be designed so that they dont drop into your stomach at the bottom of the first drop, *cough**RACER**cough*. ;)

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:34 PM
How about making a comfortable train, with old style lapbars that dont pin you in, but are still safe (say for example, kennywood t bolt, coney cyclone that have worked for years).

GCI have the market on comfortable woodie trains, but that lap bar still kinda sucks.

Hey guys, it's not air time if you're pinned to the seat :)

I think it's "uplift force" or something like that...

The MF trains are very comfortable and the rides they are on are holding up very well. I rode Thunderhead for the first time a few days ago and there was only 1 spot that seemed a little rough (the bottom of the first drop, when it turns left), but that was hardly rough compared to rides with PTC's.

AND, I looked and looked, and could not find any new wood on Thunderhead. For a ride that smooth, that's pretty amazing...

*** Edited 6/24/2007 12:49:12 AM UTC by J7G3***

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 9:08 PM
J7G3, there is a problem with that...

According to ASTM F 2291-06a ("Standard Practice for Design of Amusement Rides and Devices") §6.4.3:


The restraint diagram shown in Fig. 2 shall be used as part the patron restraint and containment analysis for determining if a restraint is required, and if required, what type. The restraint diagram identifies and graphically illustrates five distinctive areas of theoretical acceleration. Each of the five distinctive areas may require a different class of restraint as indicated in 6.5 of this practice. The restraint diagram applies for “sustained acceleration” levels only. It is not to be applied for “impact acceleration.

.

The aforementioned diagram indicates that any sustained (longer than a quarter of a second) acceleration either upward at more than 0.2g or forward at any force above 0G while downward at less than 0.2g requires a Class 4 or Class 5 restraint; any sustained acceleration upward at more than 0G requires a Class 4 restraint.

§ 6.4.3.7 describes a Class 4 restraint, and 6.4.3.8 describes a Class 5 restraint. The exact wording is not so important except that both specify that "a restraint device shall be provided for each individual patron" and further specify that "The final latching position of the restraint must be variable in relation to the patrons, for example, a bar or a rail with multiple latching positions."

You can see, therefore, that unless this bit of the standard were to magically go away, the chances of getting a *great* new coaster to open up with traditional lap bars is pretty much -nil-.

(for what it's worth, I think that section of F 2291 is poorly written crap, but the committee took three years to write it, so getting them to let go of it will be a very tough sell....)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 9:26 PM

DantheCoasterman said:
I have to aree that Voyage would DEFENITELY benefit from MFlyers. I was at HW yesterday. I'll write a TR soon but man this year The Voyage has been killing my legs, and below the belt. Also, from the first reverse-banked turn/hop until the brake-run my head felt like it was being held against a jackhammer. Sadly, it is now dropping to my #3, after my trip to CP the 20th & 21st..........

I am also wondering how the restraints will be, hopefully they will be designed so that they dont drop into your stomach at the bottom of the first drop, *cough**RACER**cough*.


What you felt on Voyage for the first time this year; I felt one every ride that I took last year. Reason #1, and the only reason in my mind that Voyage will never be in my top spot of best coaster.

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Saturday, June 23, 2007 9:29 PM
Good point Dave!

I don't understand all that jargon though, to be honest.

But I do know that I sure enjoy my rides on Cyclops, Cornball Express, umpteens of rocking boats, CI Cyclone, Kennywood tbolt, jack rabbit and racer.

SFOG GASM, SFNE Tbolt... to name a few.

There must be some descrepancy somewhere. There are rides that allow you a little lee-way UP from your seat (all named above), but most are hard to "fall out of" is your sitting next to someone.

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Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:46 AM

Jeff said:
Dude, this is 2007.

Thanks. I was wondering why the calendar seemed so unfamilar.

Actually Jeff, I'm just paraphrasing something you said about B&M's website a few years back... you having said something along the same lines. But wait, that was back in 2004 or 2005. This is 2007. Things have changed completely in the past two or three years, right? Dude?


Remind me to never ask you for marketing advice.

Okay I will remind you, since you have such a history of asking me for advice.


eightdotthree said:
If your website is that bad, then how bad is your attention to your customers?

Going out on a limb, I don't think that many amusement park operators have complained about the lack of attention they get from PTC. In fact, I know many instances where PTC customers are thrilled with the attention they get from PTC. PTC has remained in business for more than 100 years because they take care of their customers, not because they have a flashy website. If anyone believes that a good website is going to be the key to the company's future success, I'll steer clear of their marketing advice.


Charles Nungester said:
I never said there was something wrong with the trains or the coaster... A eye witness told me that Tom made a comment on how bad the coaster was on his trains.

Don't take it personally, Chuck. I'm sure you know by now that if you don't have something signed in blood by the CEO, it's not open for discussion, right? Tom actually did say something along those lines... he might not have admitted that the coaster was bad for the trains, but he said something about the coaster really testing the limits of the trains. Not sure where I was but I heard that come straight from him. So yeah, The Voyage might be a little too much for the trains... not sure why that's so hard to believe, nor am I understanding why The Voyage can't be a good ride AND create problems for its rolling stock..

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Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:55 AM

J7G3 said:
How about making a comfortable train, with old style lapbars that dont pin you in, but are still safe (say for example, kennywood t bolt, coney cyclone that have worked for years).

GCI have the market on comfortable woodie trains, but that lap bar still kinda sucks.

Hey guys, it's not air time if you're pinned to the seat :)

I think it's "uplift force" or something like that...

The MF trains are very comfortable and the rides they are on are holding up very well. I rode Thunderhead for the first time a few days ago and there was only 1 spot that seemed a little rough (the bottom of the first drop, when it turns left), but that was hardly rough compared to rides with PTC's.

AND, I looked and looked, and could not find any new wood on Thunderhead. For a ride that smooth, that's pretty amazing...

*** Edited 6/24/2007 12:49:12 AM UTC by J7G3***



Do some research. No less than Three people have died from standing on Coney Cyclone over the years. I think it's actually more. However, Im not blaming the restraints either.

Chuck

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